Logic Puzzle Forums Can someone please explain this hint?
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#1
03-09-2017, 02:48 PM
 noraknotes Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2
Can someone please explain this hint?

I have read this over and over in my head and I don't understand this hint. Could someone please explain this? Thanks so much!

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​.ılıll|̲̅●̅|̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llılı.野良 K / Notes.ılıll|̲̅●̅|̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llılı.
#2
03-09-2017, 03:06 PM
 uigrad Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 110

It's a very similar case to one of the tutorials:

http://logic-puzzles.org/how-to-solv...unaligned-pair

In the tutorial example, you know that blue is \$55, so it seems a little bit different than your example, but that isn't important for understanding the transitive stuff (which is explained in slides 4-7).

If you can understand slides 4-7 on that page, then you'll be able to understand the clue in your example.
#3
03-09-2017, 03:11 PM
 noraknotes Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by uigrad It's a very similar case to one of the tutorials: http://logic-puzzles.org/how-to-solv...unaligned-pair In the tutorial example, you know that blue is \$55, so it seems a little bit different than your example, but that isn't important for understanding the transitive stuff (which is explained in slides 4-7). If you can understand slides 4-7 on that page, then you'll be able to understand the clue in your example.
Thank you so much! I wasn't sure what to call it so I couldn't look it up anywhere else! Much appreciated!!
__________________
​.ılıll|̲̅●̅|̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llılı.野良 K / Notes.ılıll|̲̅●̅|̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llılı.
#4
06-11-2017, 12:05 AM
 Scarlytt Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4

I don't know if it helps or not, but from what I've been able to tell, sometimes the clues refer more to points in a finished puzzle which doesn't really help when you don't have it solved. It doesn't help that they're worded very confusingly as well. I'm dyslexic and end up not paying attention to the clues because the way they're written mean nothing to me.
#5
10-22-2017, 10:25 AM
 loofadawg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 14

I have seen this hint a few times but I truly cannot wrap my head around it mainly because it mentions Rilania which isn't in clue #2. Because of this I can't complete some puzzles. The unaligned pairs slides are not helping for me. A different explanation please. I am sorry for being so daft.
#6
10-22-2017, 01:19 PM
 serenia Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 30

From your current grid state, Rilania cannot be 1921.

Clue #2 says that 19 must be paired with either Verturu or 1921. Can either one of these be paired with Rilania?

Verturu cannot be Rilania (same category), and neither can 1921 (your current grid state). Therefore, 19 cannot be Rilania.
#7
10-23-2017, 05:46 AM
 Elsajeni Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 6

loofadawg -- the part about Rilania comes from clue #6, which says that Rilania's piece was painted before one of the other paintings. That means that Rilania can't be 1921 -- 1921 is the latest year, so there'd be no room for a later painting.

Once you know that, you can look again at clue #2. 19 has to be either Verturu or 1921, so if you can find something that's definitely NEITHER Verturu or 1921, you know it also isn't the one that's been missing 19 years. Of course, Rilania can't be Verturu. From clue #6, we also know Rilania didn't paint their piece in 1921. So Rilania can't be the one that's been missing 19 years! Make sense?
#8
10-23-2017, 08:28 AM
 carpboy Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 19

I've come up with a method to scan those without having to think it through.

Take the clue "Of cat and New York, one is orange and the other is Sam".

I will do the following:

cat NOT New York: Scan the cat column/row and note all the choices marked as impossible EXCEPT do not include New York in that group. Mark those same choices as impossible in the orange and Sam columns/rows. Do not use a square marked as proven correct, only those marked as proven impossible.

Repeat for New York NOT cat: This time scanning the New York column/row for all items proven incorrect EXCEPT cat. Mark those same choices as impossible in the orange and Sam columns/rows.

Repeat now as Orange NOT Sam, substituting into the cat/New York column/rows, and then finally (you get it now) Sam NOT orange, substituting into the cat/New York column/rows.

Once you do it once or twice you get the pattern down, it is quite easy.
#9
10-25-2017, 04:20 AM
 loofadawg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 14

Brilliant. If I can come up with a real life example I will make some slides showing it in action. If anyone has any "on hand" from an actual puzzle where we can recreate this I would love to use it for my slides. I will post the finished results in the forum somewhere.
#10
10-26-2017, 05:27 AM
 Quazar Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 33

[argh I saw the question but only skimmed the first few replies before drafting this... I see @carpboy said the same thing with less words! oh well it's typed so I will post it]

I suppose it's important to understand why this is logical, but in the end becomes mechanical:

Clue 2 points to the intersection of Verturu and and 1921. We look at that X and then notice to the left an X that points to Rilania. "Not Rilania" we say to ourselves, and apply that to both sides of the other mentioned pair: 19 years is not Rilania, Lost in Time is not Rilania.

Then work it the other way. 19 years and Lost In time, "not Girl at Sea". From the other pair Verturu is not Girl at Sea, and 1921 is not Girl at Sea.

If that makes sense you can see that this type of clue can quickly yield a lot of X's. This took me a long time to understand (see http://www.logic-puzzles.org/forum/showthread.php?t=243 haha). Thanks to @zenobia43 who really helped me in 2013... took me a long time but I finally got it!

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