Logic Puzzle Forums Fastest times are by people who cheat.
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#21
08-08-2017, 07:04 AM
 Sarge Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 14

Well in any event, I think the main point is that the title of this thread (fastest times are by people who cheat) is demonstrably false as a general proposition, since many people posting here have gotten the fastest times without cheating.

I've always assumed bonbon23 is pretty much the undisputed best player on here, given the number of fastest puzzles at the highest difficulty level, but I doubt he/she is cheating because it would be incredibly boring to spend that much time cheating on so many puzzles to get the record times. Plus I occasionally beat some of his/her scores, and I'm not cheating - and I assume "cheating times" would have to be significantly lower than honest times, or what would the point be?

So anyway, if some people are cheating, I think it's a very insignificant problem.
#22
08-08-2017, 03:01 PM
 pcuser Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 167

Quote:
 Originally Posted by digited That would definitely explain why some of your records are hard to beat, pcuser, 'cause I haven't found that pattern. The only pattern I've found is in the clue structure and it doesn't always work the same way but it has been helpful.
As I said, I didn't use the methods for cheating I developed. I was merely curious as to whether it could be done. I did it as an intellectual exercise because I saw data that indicated cheating. Had I not noticed that, I wouldn't have thought to find ways to cheat. I never did it while in competition mode. As to my records being hard to beat, I haven't posted that many records with the new puzzles as I don't play as often as I used to. I also don't consider it cheating if you see a deep logic pattern in the clues and grids. That came from my degree in theoretical math. I was also competing against others who were putting up the same kind of stats, hence my use of the logic I uncovered. I used no notes. However, it could be that those I was competing against were cheating, however I believe most of those weren't. I only know of one person I was sure was cheating.
#23
08-09-2017, 12:09 AM
 Sarge Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 14

What made you sure that people were cheating? Was this on the highest difficult level puzzles or something else? I haven't seen anything on those puzzles that would indicate anyone was cheating (e.g. I haven't seen scores so low that they would only be achievable by cheating).
#24
08-09-2017, 02:39 AM
 derek Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: uk Posts: 16

Well said Sarge. I am getting fed up of some people who are continually whinging about other players fast times.Maybe if these players practised more then i'am sure their times would gradually get faster.
#25
08-09-2017, 04:04 AM
 Krakodil Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 4

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sarge I haven't seen anything on those puzzles that would indicate anyone was cheating (e.g. I haven't seen scores so low that they would only be achievable by cheating).
I`ve seen the score of 71 (!!) sec in 4x7 grid puzzle. Unreally enough, isn`t it? Though I think it was due to someone`s good memory - this puzzle is one of the "oldest" and sometimes it`s happens to meet the same puzzle again only few days later.
#26
08-09-2017, 08:43 AM
 pcuser Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 167

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sarge What made you sure that people were cheating? Was this on the highest difficult level puzzles or something else? I haven't seen anything on those puzzles that would indicate anyone was cheating (e.g. I haven't seen scores so low that they would only be achievable by cheating).
This was with the old puzzles. I also don't want to say how it was done as it is easily replicated. That method would work with current puzzles and may be in use now, but I haven't bothered to inspect the data to make that determination. Given that it was used in the past, it could well be used now.However, there is at least one other method for the new puzzles. Again, I won't say how as I don't want to give anyone ideas. That's why I simply play against myself and for my own enjoyment.
#27
08-09-2017, 07:17 PM
 act_now Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 22

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pcuser This was with the old puzzles. I also don't want to say how it was done as it is easily replicated. That method would work with current puzzles and may be in use now, but I haven't bothered to inspect the data to make that determination. Given that it was used in the past, it could well be used now.However, there is at least one other method for the new puzzles. Again, I won't say how as I don't want to give anyone ideas. That's why I simply play against myself and for my own enjoyment.
Then why bring it up at all?
#28
08-10-2017, 12:42 AM
 digited Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Idaho, US Posts: 9

Quote:
 Originally Posted by act_now Then why bring it up at all?
Uh, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that pcuser brought it up as it was relevant to the conversation many of us were having...?
#29
08-10-2017, 12:50 AM
 Marakieno Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 1

I really can't understand, why in these times everybody are focused only to win. I am not familiar with maths or any high level logic thinking, but still each day I am successfully doing few logic grid puzzles (mostly 4x7 challenging) --- not caring about score at all. I just ENJOY THE SOLVING, in a middle-time taking a cup of tea, giving some rest to my eyes and brain. I never achieve any more than the lowest time so far. So what? Should I kill myself because of it? Should I accuse of cheating everybody around because of it? Come on!

Let's solve the puzzles in our own time with joy, try to improve ourselves with no stress and envy, and be happy for those, who are better solvers than we are --- that's my advice.

And please forgive my English I know it is not good, but I just wanted to give my opinion here.

Best luck for everyone!
#30
08-10-2017, 09:20 AM
 Sarge Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 14

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pcuser This was with the old puzzles. I also don't want to say how it was done as it is easily replicated. That method would work with current puzzles and may be in use now, but I haven't bothered to inspect the data to make that determination. Given that it was used in the past, it could well be used now.However, there is at least one other method for the new puzzles. Again, I won't say how as I don't want to give anyone ideas. That's why I simply play against myself and for my own enjoyment.
But this isn't at all what I asked. I didn't ask how they were cheating on old or new puzzles or anything that might reveal this to other people. I asked what led you to believe people were cheating? Which level puzzles? Since you can only see the scores of other people, and not how they went about solving it, I assume you're basing your conclusion on the scores, which makes it relevant which level puzzle because as I mentioned, I have never seen scores so low on the 4x7 puzzles that they could be achieved by cheating (I never saw the 71 sec score another user mentioned).

If the scores were so egregiously low that cheating was self-evident, I would think people who play a lot would have come across them and would know they were too fast to be read. But the only people who ever claim that are people who are new and/or can't solve the puzzles quickly. If you're claiming people are cheating on some other basis, I can't think what that basis could be.

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