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Old 11-12-2018, 11:33 AM
cmderden79 cmderden79 is offline
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Default Speed Tips?

I know this is redundant to topics previously posted, but has anyone that records blazing fast (or even very fast) times ever done a screen record or similar to demonstrate their method? I am currently doing 4x5 grids on moderate...can solve roughly 95% without tips etc...feel like I am moving very fast, yet generally top out at average at best. Would love to see in action what pointers I am missing to eliminate options faster. For what it is worth I have watched tips on advance solving strategies and understand them completely, but none of that seems to help reducing 450 second times to 200 second levels. It appears I am either doing more work than needed, or not understanding a vital component. Some of the record times I just find hard to believe (sub 100 second) as simply reading the necessary clues and filling in the boxes would seem to take that long. However, I do believe the 200 second times are reasonable and would like to know/see the process for achieving those times.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:58 AM
cerine cerine is online now
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Don't so much read the clues as scan them for numbers, words from the grid, and words like more, less, before, after, etc.

Don't use the bottom of the grid unless you get stuck. Most clue sets can be solved by marking Xs in just the top rows, and since those are the rows used to check your answers, marking the lower parts of the grid usually just wastes time. The only exception is marking Os from clues that give you X=Y.

Click on clues to gray them out and move them down to the Used Clues list once you've transferred all the info in them to the top rows of the grid or Os in the bottom. This will save you from wasting time re-scanning them on future passes through the clue list.
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:06 PM
cmderden79 cmderden79 is offline
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thanks for the response. I do most of those things (definitely removed spent clues ASAP) but I am sure I could get a bit better on speed reading the clues. As for only marking the top of the board, I get the theory, but it does seem necessary often to mark the bottom as these will be transposed later once an O is marked. I will try a few where I mark as little as possible on the bottom of the board. Felt like I was being as minimalistic as possible there (at least for me), but obviously there is still some opportunity.

Curious, do you use notation to solve, or simply read the clues as is?
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:58 PM
cerine cerine is online now
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Just using the top rows means you don't necessarily record everything you learn from reading each clue. It may take another pass or two for that info to be directly recordable in the top rows, but you won't have to transpose anything later. And you can pass through the clues faster if you're ignoring most of the grid. Especially since you can narrow the list of words you're scanning for in the first pass or two (any clue that doesn't have one of the words on the upper left of the grid or whichever more/less relationship descriptions fit the puzzle can be completely ignored). Try doing a few puzzles where you don't record any negative relationships (Xs) until you can record them in the top row. Once you get used to that, I think you'll find it's usually faster.

I never take notes. I've never seen the point, honestly, since all the info I need is already there.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:22 PM
cmderden79 cmderden79 is offline
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Makes a lot more sense now...will do and thanks for your time!
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:18 PM
serenia serenia is online now
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A 4x5 easy in 72 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQK27-ii3I

Pause it on the completion page so you can read the stats.

The clues are machine generated. There are only a handful of clue types, so once you have gotten completely familiar with the backstory, you only skim the clues for keywords and phrases that show up in predictable places in each clue.

This works best with easy, short, distinct sounding, non-duplicated category labels.

If you have Hanna and Hannah in the same category, that might slow you down. Having 16 degrees C in two different temperature categories or the color red in two different color categories could also slow you down.

Fortunately, most of the puzzles don't have little speed bumps like that, so you only have to read part of each clue.

If you're looking to set the all time impossible record for a puzzle, there is nothing wrong with taking a wild guess on an either-or clue. If you're right, you set a ridiculously low record time. If you're wrong, you will get a penalty, and maybe you will raise the median and help everyone else out.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:12 PM
rachel06 rachel06 is offline
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is it cheating to guess? i dont want to cheat
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:03 PM
serenia serenia is online now
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From the Puzzle Baron's logic puzzle tutorial concerning Trial and Error:

"First off, a disclaimer. Trial and error is never, never, NEVER required to solve any Puzzle Baron brand logic puzzle! We specifically engineer and test our puzzles so that they can each be solved using pure logic alone.

That said, there's nothing preventing you from using trial and error when you can't find the next logical move. So if you get absolutely stuck on a puzzle and you can't find your way to the next true/false relationship, you can always give trial and error a try"


https://www.logic-puzzles.org/how-to...gic-puzzle.php
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:34 PM
cmderden79 cmderden79 is offline
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Thanks so much for the example. It did show me a few things I was doing incorrectly to slow myself down, and I completely understand how you can hit those times. Think I will scale back from moderate to easy to test those skills out, because the "Of" statements in the moderate puzzles seem to make things a bit more tricky. Again, no problem solving 95% of them, but doubt I could move that fast with those types of clues. Once I get the speed down on easy I will step it back up. Again, exactly what I was hoping to find here. Thanks a bunch.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2018, 08:22 PM
EclipseRider EclipseRider is offline
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Here's how I attack them:

1) Go through the clue list and complete any clues that are straight-forward that will never need to be revisited. These include:
Definite Yes
Definite No
A,B,C are all different things
"Neither" clues

2) I will then go back through the clues and tackle any of the "step" clues that indicate when something is xxxx amount of places away from another thing.

It is important to do them in this order. For example if I do a clue that says Bananas was one step earlier than Apples. I can only mark off the last box in Bananas and box #1 in Apples. I then get a clue that says Bananas is not #3. Then I need to go back and find my clue that says Bananas is one step earlier than Apples and can now mark off #4 in Apples as well.

So you have to read the 2 clues 3 times.

If you first mark off Bananas is not #3, when you get to the clue that says Bananas is one step earlier than Apples, you can see that Apples cannot be #1, OR #4 because you've already crossed out #3 in Bananas. So in this case, you only need to read the 2 clues 2 times.

3) At this point, you know your grid is a complete as can be so you never have to worry about missing things up to this point. Then proceed to the "Either" questions and mark appropriately.

4) Finally, tackle the "Of" clues last.

You'll want to use some of the tips mentioned in other posts, like scanning for common words, to have an idea if you fill out a box based on an "Either" or "Of" clue, that that category came up in another clue and you have to revisit that clue to narrow down the choices a bit. Hope this helps.
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