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Old 02-02-2018, 02:39 PM
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pidgeon92 pidgeon92 is offline
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Default Anybody who struggled initially and then became proficient?

I've been playing some of the logic game apps on my iThings and I found this website when I was Googling tips on how to play, and I have studied the FAQ. I used to design Access databases, and they were rather complex, so I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time with these. I think my subpar short term memory is my biggest problem.

I started with 3x4 Easy and Medium puzzles, and with a few days of repetition I don't have problems with those anymore. Right now, I'm working on 3x4 Challenging puzzles, and they still take me forever. If I'm lucky I end up with an average time. Mostly I'm slow or very slow. I'm not overly concerned about the time, but I'd like to get to the point where I'm mostly average and not struggling over the clues. I'm still having difficulty with the structure of some of the clues, and I find I'm overthinking a lot of the time and making stupid errors. I don't want to move onto the larger grids until I'm more competent.

What has helped me a lot is taking screen shots after I've used a hint, and making notes as to the logic used. Then when I come across a puzzle with a similar clue, I can compare it to the clues and hints in the screen shot. I'd love to hear from anyone who started out slowly and used some technique or made some discovery that helped them in solving increasingly complex puzzles.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:54 PM
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uigrad uigrad is offline
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I'm working on 3x4 Challenging puzzles, and they still take me forever. If I'm lucky I end up with an average time. Mostly I'm slow or very slow. I'm not overly concerned about the time, but I'd like to get to the point where I'm mostly average and not struggling over the clues.
Getting an average time on challenging puzzles is actually quite good.

From what I can tell, most people here play easy puzzles more than anything else. It's the easiest way to rack up points for the monthly hall of fame. There are so many casual players that play easy puzzles that I pretty much always end up in the very fast category, and I set records on easy puzzles occasionally (although it's getting harder as there haven't been any new puzzles in more than a year).

I think that the challenging puzzles are too difficult for the average user here. A lot of people play 2 or 3 of them, and don't even finish, then they go back to easy puzzles and never return to the challenging ones. So, if you are playing them on a regular basis, you are competing against a much smaller group of people, and they tend to be very good.

As you play puzzles over and over, your times will continue to improve. Even after 6 months of playing, I wasn't nearly as fast as I am now. I've played puzzles at lots of different sites but keep coming back to here, because I keep seeing myself improve on these puzzles, and that is the fun part!
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:17 AM
shipshapetim shipshapetim is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
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Default Try Moderate

Try Moderate 3x4 or 3x5 they start to give you the logical leaps beyond the clues but without so many that you get overwhelmed like in 4x6 or 4x7.

Then maybe even try Challenging 3x4. once you get used to the deductions you need to make it helps a lot.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:02 AM
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MissMarie MissMarie is offline
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I vividly remember my first logic puzzle back in 2010. I had no clue how to work the grid. I wrote it all down on a piece of paper and fiddled around with it without using the grid until I had worked it out. Took me hours. But I am always up for a challenge, and I figured if other people did it there was no reason why I shouldn't be able to do it as well.

Have you read the tutorial at http://logic-puzzles.org/how-to-solv...gic-puzzle.php ? It's a really good explanation of the different types of clues and how to use them. I don't think the old site in 2010 had a tutorial like this, and it took me quite a while to figure it all out. Here are a few more things that I found helpful:

There are also printable puzzles. I used those for practice without using any part of the lower grid. It helped me see connections between the clues faster when doing puzzles on the website.

Use the hint button when you get stuck. Then make sure you understand what the hint is telling you, sometimes it can be a little confusing. Ask for help if you can't make sense of it.

Practice, practice, practice. After a while you will develop your own method of solving the puzzles, realizing what to look for next, becoming aware of the clues/connections that you are missing.

And don't obsess too much with the record times. Focus on understanding the clues and connections first. The rest will come later. For really fast times you need to stop reading the whole clue... I just scan for the important information, filling in the grid and making connections while going through the clues, trying to use the lower grid as little as possible. Don't necessarily use the clues in the order they appear. And work on understanding the grid. I hate those darn greater/lesser clues but being able to use the grid to solve them is much faster than actually comparing two clues, substituting categories and eliminating combinations that way.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:10 AM
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blhins19 blhins19 is offline
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I did the 3x4 puzzles on easy for several months before I even tried anything else. I found that since I did them for so long, it was not that difficult to do well on the 3x4 challenging puzzles, though it did take a couple weeks before I started doing really well. I still stick to the easy puzzles for the most part though. Keep practicing and you'll get the hang of it.
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Old 02-03-2018, 04:35 PM
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judesalles judesalles is offline
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Just curious as to how many easy 3x4s you did before stepping up to the hard stuff I just started and am finding that, to me, just to be in the average is an accomplishment. It's so easy to miss a step.
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:57 PM
SpacieInSpace SpacieInSpace is online now
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I started off as a fool, becoming proud if I completed an easy 3x4 in 90 or so seconds. After a while, I became good at those, so I moved onto 4x4. I got good at those, so I moved onto challenging 3x4s. Again, I wanted to be able to solve more, so I tried (and never completed) many challenging 4x4s. Moving on, I tried easy 4x7, until I reached god tier. Challenging 4x7. You cowards. Logic puzzles have consumed my life. Everytime I close my eyes, I see them. When I sleep, I dream of them. They are responsible for my B's in class, for my zoning out. I have seen the world, beyond, and the end. I have seen civilization collapse, galaxies colliding, and worlds ending. I have learned truths that could destroy a person. In this world, there is no god. Only logic puzzles.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:08 PM
MALAW7 MALAW7 is offline
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I stay in the 4x5, moderate/challenging level......started with 4x4 easy...I never really go past this range, it is not too easy or too hard...at one point i started with the last clue first, but found that going out of order helped.

For example, starting with the clues that list exclusions, like "the five people are..." or ones that list higher/lower, "Janet's appointment is 20 minutes after the dog owner."

There are 2 ideas that I have to remind myself:

(1) The grid itself is a clue. Consider the first three full "boxes" across. Can I look at them and come to the conclusion that "this" will never be " that''?

I find an attribute that has the last 2 choices open, then look for other attributes (in different sections) that have the last 2 choices marked as an absolute no... "If A can only be this or this, and B is not this or this (and never will be), then A is not B."

(2) Though the clues are designed to standalone, when certain ones are put together, they give an exclusion or two. On this strategy you really have to put the clues together and extract ideas.

For example flipping clues around, Kay is 7 older than the blue house. This is the the same as the blue house is 7 younger than Kay. This is helpful for plugging in values. For example, anything explicitly stated as 14 older than blue, I can safely say is not Kay.

It ultimately sets me up to identify (in simple terms) if A=B, and B does not equal C, then A does not equal C. But of course in puzzle format, there are more factors, the concept is the same though. It is tricky and takes time to get, but it comes.

Also, I used/studied the hints. Yes, it adds time. But, it gives insight on what I may not have thought about or connected. The hints are generally repetitive enough to learn from, also it is easy not to become dependent on them to progress.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:11 AM
MALAW7 MALAW7 is offline
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There should be a picture of what I mean. It is blurry but you can still see.

-concentrate on the first three boxes across
- in the first box, one attribute is only going to one of two spaces, the bottom two
- two attributes in the last box show to never ever be the last 2
- based on this review of the grid, i can safely say that the first attribute will not be the 1st or 4th attribute of the last box
- it is kind of trippy, you have to force yourself to see (i go through this everytime, like "how did i just spend 45 minutes on this puzzle and miss this connection...this logic..lol)...it's sort of like seeing the forest through the trees.
- also, the key to this elimination is being 100% positive that the attribute choices already on the board are 100% accurate

If any comments I said did not make sense, hopefully a seasoned player will add to the idea. But also, the advice or strategies given are only to help expand on your current understanding. It may not necessarily show a new idea. Which is ok. Get what you can get.

Also, you will get there, don't give up...i must say these puzzles changed my life. I used to spend like 4 hours on one. One thought got me through, "I know there's an answer. Find it."

Seriously, I had to talk myself through these. Many a time, I had to remind myself that the developers were, in fact, not playing a cruel joke, and that there was a solution to this puzzle.

Happy Logic-ing!
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:01 AM
Feelthecosmos Feelthecosmos is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 9

Hmm, struggled initially then became proficient, you say? Access databases, huh?

I joined a few months ago and jumped straight into 4x7 challenging. My first puzzle took me over 4 hours, and I think I still needed hints. Now, I just cracked a million for the first time doing mostly 4x7 easys, and I just did a challenging to see if I'd improved and got it done in about 7 minutes. Some tips:

First, there are many definitions of "proficient." Do you want to conquer the puzzles and understand why each choice has been made? Do you want to go fast? Do you want massive points on the leaderboard? Believe it or not, these goals are mostly mutually exclusive, and the reason, strangely, has its roots in database design!

I don't want to wreck this thread with too much of a wall, so I'll try to be brief. If your goal is fast times, you have to eliminate all the fluff and concentrate on only what matters. The left side of the top row is the primary key of the puzzle. It will ALWAYS be scalable (meaning a fixed numerical interval between options), and every single math clue will relate to the primary key. Before you do anything else, take note of the primary key and interval. You'll be mostly ignoring the lower squares, because you'll be mostly translating every data point into the primary key.

Next, have a set pattern for tackling each puzzle type. I look for "the seven sages are.." and "are three different people..." clues first while I have a clean grid. Then, I try to grab the one that's "+/- 5" (if there is one), because any other math clues related to this will reduce the options to 2. "Of the" clues are the worst, and they come after all the math ones are complete. Then, the "is not" clue: if it doesn't relate to the primary key, save it for last.

The point is this: the puzzles look to be quite varied, but there are actually only about 30 rules to memorize (even for the challenging puzzles). Figure them out, memorize them, and learn the best order for you, and these things start to look all the same after a thousand or so attempts. A word of warning, though: once all the tricks are automatic, the joy of figuring out a logic puzzle WILL BE replaced by the joy of adding 900 points to your score. You won't be able to get it back, because all you'll ever see after that point is the matrix.

Good luck, and I hope to see y'all on the leaderboards!
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