#11  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:40 PM
pcuser pcuser is offline
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Default Cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwack View Post
the answer is - they cheat! it is impossible to complete in under 2 minutes - my guess is they are copying from the book version they already completed

Love this site, but the 89 second completion records just really frustrate me!!!!

Quit everybody!
I don't think so. For me, I know i don't cheat. What is "the book version" anyway. When you have done as many puzzles as the best solvers have, come back here and try again with your silly comments. You can also check the evolution of solve times by tracing them in trophy rooms from the beginning to the present.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:12 AM
lsatgames lsatgames is offline
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Default Practice and knowledge of logic

I am averaging about 400 seconds at the moment, but my best is 120 seconds for a 4x4 and 280 for a 4x5

Working out the ones with really low solve percentages has been a big help, as is starting fresh.

Also it takes about a minute to read the questions, so you only have about 30 or so seconds to make 30 clicks plus any red Xes you need to make.

So doable to get a record but you it takes a bit of luck to pick the correct starting point.

practice is really important, just like learning your multiplication tables.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2012, 04:49 PM
rush1169 rush1169 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwack View Post
the answer is - they cheat! it is impossible to complete in under 2 minutes - my guess is they are copying from the book version they already completed

Love this site, but the 89 second completion records just really frustrate me!!!!

Quit everybody!
No doubt there are people who don't play by the assumed rules, but I wouldn't say anyone cheats - they all play within the allowed presentation of the website - we just assume that you are not allowed to solve a puzzle, print it off, and use that printout to solve the same puzzle when you get it again. However, that method is allowed by the system, so it's not a cheat
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:37 PM
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AuntyS AuntyS is offline
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Default

Completely agree. Just when you start feeling good about yourself by beating the average times you look over at the comments and see a string of people (all the usual suspects) getting impossible times. If they are cheating in some way then they should be banned from commenting as it kills the morale of others.
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:57 AM
jeffnn jeffnn is offline
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Default

Not that this method would be of any use for speed as there are so many puzzles and the ones you get are randomly selected.
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:18 AM
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Burn Burn is offline
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Default The Trick

There are many ways to be faster
Retention of prior puzzles and of current clues. Familiarization, (do lots of puzzles).
Frame of mind. In which frame of mind I am in (Bad day, many interrupts, etc.)I can be super fast or not. I have lost to my own high scores many times.
Don't read the back stories anymore. "Only when you are starting out"
Don't read the clues as given. Read in random. The choice of which clue you pick at which time in the puzzle will hugely improve your decisions/score.
Remember patterns. I believe Jeffnn mentioned patterns. This is true. The website has put up new puzzles but only the names have changed.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:34 PM
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MissMarie MissMarie is offline
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I'd be very careful calling times "impossible" and imply people are cheating. Our brains all work differently, and what seems impossible to some is very easy to others. My son for example thinks these puzzles are boring because they are "always the same". He solves Rubik's Cubes instead. His personal best for a standard 3x3 is 12 seconds, and he can always do it in under 30 seconds. I would call that an impossible time because I probably couldn't do it in five minutes. Yet these fantastic times don't even get him into the second round at competitions because the best participants continuously manage to solve their cubes in under 10 seconds. Every. Single. Try. Just because it seems impossible to most of us doesn't mean it actually is impossible.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:52 PM
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s10wanderer s10wanderer is offline
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There are lots of factors for speed. I can generally be fairly fast (having taught logic helps this quite a bit) but if something happens while I am playing (often as I do these at work) my score goes down because I have to check out a noise or similar. Yay night jobs that leave time for puzzles.

I don't think the scores are "impossible" more like a bit of luck on where to start with clues and a lot of practice. I don't think cheating has anything to do with it.

Last edited by s10wanderer; 02-17-2018 at 04:20 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:48 AM
Feelthecosmos Feelthecosmos is offline
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Man, I love this thread! Every time it pops up it gives me a smile, so I figured I'd add my two cents. I joined in September and looked at the records, and immediately started wondering who figured out how to cheat to get those times.

Sometime around mid-November, after maybe 3,000 4x7 easy puzzles in a row, I learned what might be called "the trick." The secret to fast times is understanding one thing: solving a logic puzzle correctly and finishing a logic puzzle quickly ON THIS SITE are two completely separate things. By understanding what the site does and doesn't do, you can ignore a good portion of the logic in the puzzle and focus on speedy times.

It's hard to explain without a wall of text, but I'll give it a shot using 4x7 easy puzzles as an example. Rule #1: You don't have to complete the bottom 3 squares to submit the solution. In fact, you should keep those as empty as possible so you can see which ones to cross off in the top squares.
Rule #2: the category going down the top-left box is the primary key of the puzzle. It will always be scalable (fixed numerical intervals) and every single math clue will relate to it.
Rule #3: most puzzles have a "the seven people are..." type of clue, but never more than one. Do this one first and do it correctly (using the lower boxes). The "is not" clues are different. Save them until you can translate them into primary key values. For instance, let's say you have the one with the drugs, which has months as the primary key. If you get a clue like "Bizolam is not made from a mushroom," instead of wasting time looking for that intersection, look to see if you know which month either of those came out. Let's say you know Bizolam is in April. Now it's time to cross out April for the mushroom." The whole purpose of the puzzle on THIS SITE is to figure out each option's value relative to the primary key, so any other information is irrelevant.

Well, that's pretty much a wall of text anyway. Sorry about that. There are other things you'll notice as you do these, and not all of these rules are 100%. By taking advantage of the limitations of the puzzles, however, you can actually get some times near or above the top. Just don't confuse that with solving the puzzle.

The low limit for a 4x7 easy is 120 seconds. At this point I probably hold 10 or so of the fastest times, and have hit the 120 mark maybe another 20 times. About 1/3 of the time, I either hit an error or one of my shortcuts backfires, and I get a time of like 1,000 seconds. I guess you would call me one of the "usual suspects," and I can definitely say that cheating is a nope.
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  #20  
Old 02-20-2018, 02:18 AM
Sarge Sarge is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Default 4x7 challenging players

I generally don't find it fastest to start with Rule #3 below. I'd say it's usually the 3rd or 4th strategy I go to. I also find it necessary/quicker to fill in a couple squares in the bottom grids at least 50% of the time. However, I've also found that my approach continually evolves or grows more nuanced - what I thought was the best strategy six months ago is not what I use now. Curious re the approach of other 4x7 challenging players.

Also, is the low limit the same for all 4x7 puzzles? I've seen low 120s for a 4x7 challenging and have hit the 120s a few times myself, but I don't think I've ever seen a score below 120.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelthecosmos View Post
Man, I love this thread! Every time it pops up it gives me a smile, so I figured I'd add my two cents. I joined in September and looked at the records, and immediately started wondering who figured out how to cheat to get those times.

Sometime around mid-November, after maybe 3,000 4x7 easy puzzles in a row, I learned what might be called "the trick." The secret to fast times is understanding one thing: solving a logic puzzle correctly and finishing a logic puzzle quickly ON THIS SITE are two completely separate things. By understanding what the site does and doesn't do, you can ignore a good portion of the logic in the puzzle and focus on speedy times.

It's hard to explain without a wall of text, but I'll give it a shot using 4x7 easy puzzles as an example. Rule #1: You don't have to complete the bottom 3 squares to submit the solution. In fact, you should keep those as empty as possible so you can see which ones to cross off in the top squares.
Rule #2: the category going down the top-left box is the primary key of the puzzle. It will always be scalable (fixed numerical intervals) and every single math clue will relate to it.
Rule #3: most puzzles have a "the seven people are..." type of clue, but never more than one. Do this one first and do it correctly (using the lower boxes). The "is not" clues are different. Save them until you can translate them into primary key values. For instance, let's say you have the one with the drugs, which has months as the primary key. If you get a clue like "Bizolam is not made from a mushroom," instead of wasting time looking for that intersection, look to see if you know which month either of those came out. Let's say you know Bizolam is in April. Now it's time to cross out April for the mushroom." The whole purpose of the puzzle on THIS SITE is to figure out each option's value relative to the primary key, so any other information is irrelevant.

Well, that's pretty much a wall of text anyway. Sorry about that. There are other things you'll notice as you do these, and not all of these rules are 100%. By taking advantage of the limitations of the puzzles, however, you can actually get some times near or above the top. Just don't confuse that with solving the puzzle.

The low limit for a 4x7 easy is 120 seconds. At this point I probably hold 10 or so of the fastest times, and have hit the 120 mark maybe another 20 times. About 1/3 of the time, I either hit an error or one of my shortcuts backfires, and I get a time of like 1,000 seconds. I guess you would call me one of the "usual suspects," and I can definitely say that cheating is a nope.
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