Logic Puzzle Forums need help --moving beyond obvious
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#1
12-20-2014, 03:37 PM
 hindics Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1
need help --moving beyond obvious

i get to a certain point and don't know how to deduce further. i get to a point where i have a lot of Xs and few circles and need techniques to go further anyone suggest any reading or ideas? ii
#2
12-20-2014, 05:52 PM
 zenobia43 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 174

Here is a link to a tutorial that might help.

http://logic-puzzles.org/how-to-solv...gic-puzzle.php
#3
12-21-2014, 05:49 PM
 grognard Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 12

When you're stuck in a game, click the "hint" button. But don't X where the hint tells you. Read the hint and the explanation for why you can click that space. That will help you understand what you can do in the future.
#4
12-21-2014, 08:01 PM
 Quazar Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 33

Agreed, learning the techniques in the excellent tutorial is key... and the hint/teacher should bring it all home, with practice.

I don't know what others might say, but for me 4x4 challenging exposed a lot of what's required, and 4x5 challenging is all the test I need. Forget the competition, just take your time and keep at it!
#5
02-28-2016, 04:07 AM
 sasaasso Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 2

i want moving beyond obvious
#6
01-24-2017, 05:40 AM
 robertjohn527 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13

Zenobia,
You've helped me in the past and I'm hoping you will again. I studied the Tutorial on Transpositions. I have a problem moving from Step 7 to 8. How can on make the assumption that Pink = \$40? I realize that Pink = Virgo but in transition from 7 to 8 could be either \$40 or \$50. The real reason I even came to the Forum's is I've hit a wall in Book 1. I realize the puzzles increase in difficulty as you progress but, p.149, On Line at the Music Store and p. 150, The Science Fair have halted me. I know it's an "interpretation of the clues" issue. You were able to convert the clues to mathematical equations. Is there a tutorial on how to do that? Thanks again, Robert
#7
01-24-2017, 06:20 AM
 zenobia43 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 174

Step 7 illustrates the transposition of false relationships.

Step 8 introduces the positive relationship, pink == \$40 out of thin air just to set up the next illustration which shows how to transpose positive relationships. Or at least, that's how I read it.

If you can post page 149 and 150, I can show you the pseudo-equations. For these types of puzzles, the clues are just interesting narratives derived from the underlying equations.

I don't know of any tutorial for reducing the clues to equations, but long ago, the Baron himself showed us a technique for expressing the indefinite and fixed distance ordering clues that really helped me solve the tougher puzzles. I will show that technique if the puzzles on pages 149 and 150 require it.

There really isn't any need to reduce the clues except for handling these ordering clues and longer logic chains involving substitution.
#8
01-25-2017, 04:39 AM
 robertjohn527 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13

Thanks for getting back to me but, I've attempted to post pictures of the pagies I referred to but, all I get is "Upload Failed". Don't you just love those error messages with no reference on resolution? I took pictures of the pages with my phone (jpg extension, within the limit of size and ..... Upload Failed. I don't know which is more frustrating, the puzzle or pursuing the solution.
#9
01-25-2017, 08:50 AM
 robertjohn527 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13

Quote:
 Originally Posted by robertjohn527 Thanks for getting back to me but, I've attempted to post pictures of the pagies I referred to but, all I get is "Upload Failed". Don't you just love those error messages with no reference on resolution? I took pictures of the pages with my phone (jpg extension, within the limit of size and ..... Upload Failed. I don't know which is more frustrating, the puzzle or pursuing the solution.
This seems to have worked.
Attached Files
 Logic Puzzles2.pdf (292.3 KB, 13 views)
#10
01-25-2017, 08:58 AM
 robertjohn527 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13

Here is the second scan.
Attached Files
 On Line at the Music Store.pdf (327.9 KB, 10 views)

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