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  #11  
Old 06-14-2012, 02:24 AM
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Hi Zenobia43 How about this difficult one I was stumped with. I think it is about 27%

1. Among Ryan and the person who arrived on Thursday, one lit the vanilla candle and the other planted the bee orchid.
2. The person who arrived on Monday didn't plant the pigeon orchid.
3. The person who arrived on Tuesday didn't light the apple spice candle.
4. The person who lit the freesia candle is not Angelique.
5. Neither Angelique nor the person who planted the lady orchid lit the apple spice candle.
6. Among the person who arrived on Friday and Angelique, one planted the lady orchid and the other planted the pigeon orchid.
7. Linda arrived sometime after the person who lit the freesia candle.
8. The person who lit the vanilla candle didn't plant the pigeon orchid.
9. The person who lit the freesia candle arrived sometime after the person who lit the juniper berry candle.
10. Among Tristen and the person who lit the vanilla candle, one arrived on Tuesday and the other planted the cooktown orchid.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
First Names
Angelique
Erik
Linda
Ryan
Tristen
Orchids
bee orchid
calypso orchid
cooktown orchid
lady orchid
pigeon orchid
Candles
apple spice
bayberry
freesia
juniper berry
vanilla

thank you

Stan
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2012, 12:49 PM
zenobia43 zenobia43 is offline
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Default Angelique -Erik

With the initial clues, you can prove that Angelique = pigeon orchid and Friday = lady orchid.

Clue 5: Impies that Angelique and lady orchid have to be different people.
Clue 6: Angelique must be either pigeon orchid or lady orchid, and since she cannot be lady orchid (clue 5), she must be pigeon orchid.

So Angelique = pigeon orchid.

Clue 5: Since Angelique is now pigeon orchid, Friday = lady orchid.

After filling in all the implications of those two positives, you will now see that lady orchid = bayberry.

Clue 6, 7, 9: Since lady orchid is now Friday, and freesia and juniper berry cannot be Friday, lady orchid cannot be freesia or juniper berry.
Clue 5: Lady orchid cannot be apple spice because clue 5 implies that they are different people.
Clue 10: Lady orchid cannot be vanilla because vanilla must be either cooktown or Tuesday, and Tuesday can no longer be lady orchid (lady orchid is Friday).

So lady orchid must be bayberry.

After filling in the implications, you can prove that pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

Clue 8: pigeon orchid cannot be vanilla
Clue 4, 5, 6: pigeon orchid cannot be apple spice or freesia because pigeon orchid is Angelique, and Angelique cannot be freesia (clue 4) or apple spice (clue 5).
Since bayberry is now lady orchid, pigeon orchid cannot be bayberry.

So pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

After filling in all the implications, we will now have Wednesday = Angelique = pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

Clue 7, 9: Freesia is after juniper berry, and we now know that juniper berry is Wednesday. Therefore, freesia must be Thursday or Friday, but fressia cannot be Friday because of clue 7. So freesia must be Thursday.

This will allow you to fill in the AD category block (intersection of weekday and candle) completely, and from there, it should be relatively routine.

Use clue 7 to associate Friday with the correct first name, and use clues 3, 5 an 6 (and all the accumulated implications) to associate Monday with the correct candle.

Last edited by zenobia43; 06-14-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2012, 05:23 PM
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Hi zenobia43 I am with you up to when you say Angelique is Wednesday.
Along the three top boxes I have Angelique either Tues or Wed
Pigeon tues or wed
Juniper tues or wed
And Freezia wed and thur
and Linda thursday and friday.

So how do you get Angelique wednesday?


Stan
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2012, 06:36 PM
zenobia43 zenobia43 is offline
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You have that juniper berry can only be Tuesday or Wednesday.

Can juniper berry really be Tuesday? Let's find out.

Look at clue 10.

From clue 10, Tuesday can either be vanilla (not juniper berry) or Tristen. So the only way juniper berry can be Tuesday is if Tristen is juniper berry.

Can Tristen be juniper berry?

We know that Angelique is pigeon orchid, and pigeon orchid is juniper berry. So that means Angelique is juniper berry. Too bad for Tristen if he wanted to be juniper berry. Angelique got there first.

So Tristen cannot be juniper berry, and therefore juniper berry cannot be Tuesday.

That eliminates all hope of getting juniper berry to associate with Tuesday.

That leaves only Wednesday for juniper berry, and now you can link up with Angelique and pigeon orchid completing that entire row.

Last edited by zenobia43; 06-14-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:12 PM
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Wonderful Zenobia43 that got me there! Are you getting annoyed with me or can you do another one that is impossible as I see it?

Stan
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:30 PM
zenobia43 zenobia43 is offline
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As long as this is helping you determine how to extract the logic from the clues, I'm quite willing.

One thing I learned was that the clues that have the form: "Of Glenda and Beatrice, one left on Friday, and the other likes green tea." are sometimes the most valuable.

These clues give you two positives and all the implications that come from a positive. They're even more valuable if the positives are both in the top category blocks.

So it is worth your while to extract all the logic you can out of clues of that form.

Last edited by zenobia43; 06-14-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:49 PM
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Hi Zenobia43 here is a 29.9% that has me stumped.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
First Names
Baylee
Dana
Izabella
Kevin
Kiley
Souvenirs
figurine
kitchen magnet
license plate
snow globe
t-shirt
Instruments
clarinet
french horn
piano
piccolo
viola

1. Either the tourist who bought the novelty t-shirt or the tourist who bought the novelty snow globe arrived on Monday.
2. The person who arrived on Wednesday is not Kiley.
3. The person who arrived on Wednesday is not Baylee.
4. Of the tourist who bought the novelty snow globe and the musician who plays the clarinet, one is Kevin and the other is Izabella.
5. The musician who plays the piccolo is not Kiley.
6. The musician who plays the clarinet is not Izabella.
7. The musician who plays the viola arrived sometime before the tourist who bought the novelty license plate.
8. The tourist who bought the novelty kitchen magnet arrived the day after Baylee.
9. Of Izabella and the tourist who bought the novelty t-shirt, one arrived on Tuesday and the other plays the piano.
10. The tourist who bought the novelty figurine is not Kevin.
11. The five individuals are the person who arrived on Tuesday, the musician who plays the piano, the person who arrived on Thursday, Kiley and the tourist who bought the novelty figurine.

I have Isabella =snowglobe
and Kevin = clarinet
and stuck here, with little hope of getting much further.

Stan
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:10 AM
zenobia43 zenobia43 is offline
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Default Baylee - Dana

You have Kevin = clarinet and Izabella = snow globe. You get these from the initial pass through the clues.

It turns out that clue 9 is going to help us get to the next positive. That clue has the form I mentioned earlier.

Clues 3, 8, 9, and 11 will be used to prove that Thursday = license plate. We will eliminate all novelties from Thursday so that license plate is the only one possible.

Clue 3, 8: Baylee did not arrive Wednesday, so the kitchen magnet could not have arrived on Thursday (one day after Baylee).
Clue 11: The figurine cannot be Thursday.
Clue 9, 11: Izabella can only be Tuesday or the piano (clue 9), but piano cannot be Thursday (clue 11). That means that Izabella cannot be Thursday, and since Izabella is snow globe, snow globe cannot be Thursday.
Clue 9, 11: The same logic that applies to Izabella applies to the t-shirt, so the t-shirt cannot be Thursday either.

The only possibility left is license plate = Thursday.

Now we're going to prove that only Dana can be figurine by using clues 1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, and the intersection of two columns !!! This is why these harder puzzles are fun to solve.

Clue 9 and the initial pass on the clues: Izabella is snow globe, so she cannot be figurine.
Clues 10 and 11: Kevin and Kiley cannot be figurine.

Now here's the doozy. If you have filled in all the Xs from clues 3, 8, and 9 in the AB category block (intersection of weekdays and first names), Baylee can only be Tuesday and Thursday. In the AC category block, using clues 1 and 11, figurine can only be Wednesday and Friday.

You know what that means: Baylee cannot be figurine because the intersection of the B1 and C1 columns is null.

The only possibility left is: Dana = figurine.

That means Kiley can only be kitchen magnet.

Clue 11: Kiley cannot be figurine.
Izabella: Kiley cannot be snow globe because that belongs to Izabella.
Clue 11 and license plate: Kiley cannot be license plate because license plate is now Thursday, and Kiley cannot be Thursday (clue 11).
Clue 9, 11: Kiley cannot be t-shirt because t-shirt must be Tuesday or piano (clue 9). Tuesday cannot be Kiley (clue 11), and piano cannot be Kiley either (clue 11).

The only possibility left is Kiley = kitchen magnet.

Now Kiley can only be Friday.

Clue 11: Kiley cannot be Tuesday or Thursday
Clue 2: Kiley cannot be Wednesday
Clue 1: Kitchen magnet cannot be Monday, so Kiley cannot be Monday.

Kiley = Friday.

Now clue 8 tells us exactly where Baylee is, and the rest is a breeze.

Last edited by zenobia43; 06-15-2012 at 02:13 AM.
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2012, 04:39 PM
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Impecable Zenobia43! I enjoyed that lesson immensely. I now feel up to solving a hard one on my own.
We will see. sigh.
I usually solve the ones 42% and above. Time is not a factor with me it's the fun of solving that's important. Speed comes with practice. I know as I played competitive chess for 30 yrs.

Thank you teacher.

Stan
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:02 PM
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Hi Zenobia43 I tried one at 21.8% as I kept reloading until I could find a puzzle around 35% but it took ages and I just grabbed it. I have no matches and 24 x's. However I did manage to spot that two collums had 3 x's in boxes so I x'd Mateo against Scotch tape.
If you want to help I would appreciate it if not It will be fine. What I would like is when we get all the clues marked in just reading the clues, how do you decide where to attack? Is that very difficult? To me I always seem to pick dead end routes that tell me nothing. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Stan
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