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-   -   Request for helping to solve the problems in vol. 1 (http://www.logic-puzzles.org/forum/showthread.php?t=689)

 johncw82 08-02-2014 06:50 AM

Request for helping to solve the problems in vol. 1

4 Attachment(s)
I received the vol. 1 book a couple months ago. I like the book but there are several problems that I could not solve. Could anyone offer help? Here are the pictures that I have solved so far (which are in page 97, 125, 138 and 198 respectively), thanks!

 zenobia43 08-02-2014 07:51 AM

Would you mind showing the clues for each puzzle? There are a lot of willing helpers on this site, but if we don't have the book handy, we'll need the clues.

 johncw82 08-02-2014 07:35 PM

 zenobia43 08-03-2014 06:59 AM

Thanks for the clues!

I took a quick look at the first one and got the following:

.75 - Scott - HOPN - Manufacturing
1.00 - Derrick - AMBR - Pharm
1.25 - Brett - CFWT - Tech
1.50 - Leslie - GGML - Financial
1.75 - Connor - TLVU - Energy

I think this is consistent with the clues.

To get this, I noticed that your grid only had two alternatives for HOPN and pharma. Clue 1 says that HOPN and pharma cannot be in the same row, so there are only two alternatives for that pair. To save time, I just chose .75 for HOPN to see what would happen, and it led to a "solution."

Then I checked that result against the clues, and it seemed consistent.

I was expecting to get either a conflict or a bunch of empty rectangles that usually mean a mistake was made somewhere. If I got one of those results, I would have just chosen the other alternative for HOPN and pharma.

Does the book state somewhere that each solution is unique and each step in the solution only requires logic (no guess-and-check)?

If the puzzles in the book are like the ones in the online library, there should be a way to deduce the next step without guessing.

 johncw82 08-03-2014 08:05 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by zenobia43 (Post 2667) Does the book state somewhere that each solution is unique and each step in the solution only requires logic (no guess-and-check)? If the puzzles in the book are like the ones in the online library, there should be a way to deduce the next step without guessing.
According to the Introduction, it says:

Every puzzle in this book is solvable through logical deduction alone; trial and error and "forward guessing" are never required for a successful solve, though you are welcome to use these methods if you like!

It seems that some of the problems may have more than one solution or cannot be solved. I don't know if it happens or I miss something during solving the problems.

 zenobia43 08-03-2014 04:50 PM

I tried your second example, and I got the same result as you did. I guessed and got this solution:

Balloons - Carter - Famnar (sp?) - Student
Clowns - Emma - Lipton - Retirement
Dogs - Spencer - Garston - Super-Saver
Sunsets - Julius - Neville - Economy

This seems to be consistent with the clues. However, if Carter and Julius are swapped, I also get a solution that seems to be consistent.

Guessing violates the logical deduction principle, and non-uniqueness violates the uniqueness principle. So ...

I am probably missing some interpretation of the clues that would give us another X in those empty rectangles on the left.

 zenobia43 08-03-2014 08:07 PM

I tried your third example, and I got the same result you did. I could see from your grid that Puyallup could only be June 11 or 14, so I guessed Puyallup = June 11, and I got the following:

June 8 - 8:30 - Isanti - Zip Line
June 11 - 10:45 - Puyallup - Volcano
June 14 - 12 noon - Ephrata - Snorkeling
June 17 - 6:00 - Watonga - Horseback
June 20 - 2:30 - Barnhart - Rain Forest

Again, this seems to be consistent with the clues unless I missed something. I didn't look for another "solution."

These puzzles from the book have a different clue structure, so maybe there is some logic that I'm missing.

 zenobia43 08-04-2014 05:41 AM

Finally, I tried your fourth example, and I got a result that was very close to yours. I was missing a few Xs shown in your grid, but the rest was the same.

I guessed that Music Ally was on Sunday, and I got the following:

0 - Saturday - Komedie Kiev - Gibson
2 - Friday - Old Siam - Burdette
4 - Thursday - Aunt Agony - Grand
6 - Wednesday - Two Towers - Roxie
8 - Sunday - Music Ally - Porter

This seemed consistent with the clues.

Just like the other examples, this one was just one X away from a solution.

In this case, there were several places where a single X led to the solution shown above. That was surprising given all the open spaces in the partial solution.

I didn't look for another solution. The missing piece of logic is probably the key to ensuring a solution without guessing AND uniqueness.

 johncw82 08-04-2014 05:50 PM

Thanks for your help! It really helps a lot.

I think that if we solve a problem by guessing, it is not called "logic puzzles". There must be some clues that have not been stated, which I hope the "designer" of the problems can clarify that, by posting the new clues on the Web.

 MicahFFX 08-04-2014 09:25 PM

I took the last of the four and literally found 15 solutions that fit every single clue. Given that four of the other five threads in this forum also mention two or three of these puzzles, and all the attempts so far at solutions come down to making a guess and the solution working out, it seems more likely there is a missing clue.

(When there is a missing clue, any guess can lead to a valid solution -- assuming all invalid solutions have been marked.)

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