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homeworkhelp 12-30-2013 02:50 PM

Logic puzzle help
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi, Can someone help me with this logic puzzle it's attached. I would so appreciate it.
Thank you

I do not have the answer page only the puzzle. I'm new at this and don't even understand how to start to solve it.

JulieC 12-30-2013 03:02 PM

Usually when people ask for help, they've given the puzzle a try first. If you just want the answer, it's on page 98. ;)

zenobia43 12-30-2013 07:29 PM

Use clues 1, 2, and 5 to determine which emblem belongs to the Jaimir tribe.

Then you can use clue 3 to determine the Jaimir oasis and the Flandi emblem.

Then use clue 1 and 4 to determine which oasis Flandi uses.

Then use clue 5 to determine which oasis belongs to Alkar and which one belongs to Hruna.

Then use clues 1 and 4 plus the information already in your solution grid to determine the color of the Flandi banner.

Then you can re-use clues 1 and 2 along with the solution grid to determine the color of the Jaimir banner.

At this point, you will have the Flandi and Jaimir sub-puzzles solved, and if you have entered the Xs from all the clues and transposed the Xs from the existing positive relations, the rest of the solution will fall into place.

stanstar 12-30-2013 07:46 PM

Help needed here again Zenobia43
 
I had one tonight. 6. The bird bought in May is either the bird purchased in Aurora or the finch.

The hint was. CLUE #6: If May is either Aurora or finch, and finch does not equal a different item in the same category as Aurora (in this case, Yetter), then May cannot equal Yetter. Mark the highlighted cell as FALSE.

I don't get the logic at all. I am sorry. Say MAY = AURORA and not FINCH.
Why should MAY be unequal to Yetter just because another item (Finch) is negative to it?

Finch maybe totally unrelated to MAY so why should anything to do with Finch affect MAY at all?
I am not arguing with the logic here I am trying to understand it. Obviously all the hints I have came across do help enormously in solving the puzzle.

Stan

zenobia43 12-30-2013 09:23 PM

May must be either Aurora or finch. This is a one sided exclusive or involving the place and bird categories, so we look at the right side to see what places are possible and what birds are possible.

Let's check the places first.

The right side can either be Aurora (given in the clue) or any of the places associated with the finch.

We already know that for clues like this, the two options on the right side of the clue cannot be in the same row. So Aurora cannot be finch.

From your grid or the other clues, the finch must have been excluded from Yetter to get the hint you indicated.

So if the finch cannot be from Yetter, how could May ever be associated with Yetter?

Aurora isn't Yetter, and if the finch cannot be from Yetter, then there is no way for May to be associated with Yetter.

To answer your question:

"Finch maybe totally unrelated to MAY so why should anything to do with Finch affect MAY at all?"

The clue says that the finch and May could be in the same row. That's one of the two possibilities.

If May is in the same row as Aurora, then we don't care where the finch is, and, as you indicate, the finch doesn't affect May.

However, if May isn't in the same row as Aurora, then according to the clue, May must be in the same row as the finch. And if the finch cannot be in the same row as Yetter, then May and the finch have to be in a row that is different from the one that Yetter is in.

I think this explains your main question, so let's continue the process to squeeze as many Xs out of that clue as we can.

It might not be necessary, but while you're checking the right side of that clue for the place exclusions (like Yetter), check it for the bird exclusions too.

There might be some birds excluded from Aurora in addition to the finch.

For example, if the parrot cannot be from Aurora, then the right side of the clue cannot include the parrot. So, for this made up example, you could deduce that May cannot be the parrot.

Visually, this whole process can be accomplished by looking at the intersection of Aurora and finch. You will be placing an X at that intersection, and while you're there, check the row and column of the intersection for extra Xs that you can transpose to the May row.

stanstar 12-31-2013 09:58 AM

Once again thank you zenobia43
 
OK I am getting the picture now. Is it the same logic if it were ?:- May is either Parrot or Finch. I guess that wouldn't be the same logic would it?

And getting back to the old sortie of; Of A and B one is C and the other is D.Where A is either C or D and B is either C or D
If A is a colour can we only mark negatives against C and D as negative colours?
and vice versa for B,C,D?

Stan
A reminder of the real world.

BTW I wish you all a happy New Year from Scotland. Sing Auld Lang Syne wherever you are tonight.

zenobia43 12-31-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

OK I am getting the picture now. Is it the same logic if it were ?:- May is either Parrot or Finch. I guess that wouldn't be the same logic would it?
If Aurora was the Parrot, then the logic would be the same as "May is either Aurora or finch". However, in general, the logic is different.

Quote:

And getting back to the old sortie of; Of A and B one is C and the other is D. Where A is either C or D and B is either C or D.
If A is a colour can we only mark negatives against C and D as negative colours? and vice versa for B, C, D?
This is the double exclusive OR clue. If A is a category with colours (like in the skydiver backstory), and B category is the year the jumper started jumping, then check the B category for colour exclusions (a.k.a. negative colours in your post).

C and D can only be the colours allowable by the explicit colour of A in the clue, and any colours that B can be at the point the clue is processed.

That is, C and D (the right side of the clue), can only be the colours found in the A and B options (the left side of the clue).

We know by convention that B cannot be the colour, A, but look for other colour exclusions for B. If you find that B cannot be a certain colour (other than A), then neither C nor D can be that colour.

One of the key conditions is that A and B are different categories.

You look in the A category for excluded B options, and you look in the B category for excluded A options. Move those exclusions to the C and D categories.

Then look in the C and D categories (assuming they are different categories) the same way. Look in the C category for excluded D options, and look in the D category for excluded C options. Move any exclusions found to the A and B categories.

I found it useful to practice this with grid paper putting the AB and CD intersections in various places in the solution grid and putting a variety of Xs and Os in the row and column of the intersection.

After a while, you can process these single and double exclusive OR clues visually.

JulieC 12-31-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeworkhelp (Post 1550)
Hi, Can someone help me with this logic puzzle it's attached. I would so appreciate it.
Thank you

I do not have the answer page only the puzzle. I'm new at this and don't even understand how to start to solve it.

Go to the homepage, http://www.logic-puzzles.org/.

Read "What is a Logic Puzzle", it explains the basics.


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