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stanstar
01-30-2014, 11:23 AM
I AM.:D

I just beat my record for a 4x5 challenge type. 16 minutes! Forget my stats. I sometimes leave the puter and go out and finish the puzzle when I return. Usually I have been taking about 30 minutes but sometimes with a really hard one an hour. Other times when I am stuck I resign from the puzzle and take a hint and out of curiosity to see what the record is I finish it with the help of hints to be quicker. Please post a reply to this thread for amusing anecdotes. After all this is a VERY FUN place to be in these difficult times we live in.

I am wondering if any of the younger members here play this site on their phones? That in my mind would be awesome. I am betting there are some mobile phone players even setting records. Maybe that is what I see some young people doing crossing a busy street, instead of watching the traffic.:eek:

Stan

Alethea
01-30-2014, 11:28 AM
Congratulations on beating your record time! My latest goal is to set the record time for 5 puzzles in each size category. I would like to make my completion rate higher, but, like you, I often find it necessary to leave a puzzle for a little while. Oh, Life, why do you interrupt my fun? :p

stanstar
01-30-2014, 12:52 PM
Hi Alethia, Have you managed to set a record of any yet I wonder? If so congrats.

Stan

GuitarHero4190
01-31-2014, 04:55 AM
I have logic-puzzles on my android phone and on ipad, they are so addictive and great fun.
Also passes time at work, but ssshhhhhhh ;)

uigrad
01-31-2014, 08:54 AM
So, are we listing our goals?

The most recent goal that I reached was to get a points:seconds ratio of 2. I did a 4x4 easy in 128 seconds, giving me 257 points! If I could do that every time, then I'd be scoring as well as some of the people in the top of the charts.

My next goal is to get 1 record for each puzzle type, so that I can know the max points for each puzzle (as was asked here: http://www.logic-puzzles.org/forum/showthread.php?t=351). So far, I've maxed a 3x4 easy and 3x4 challenging (both gave 80 pts). I've also maxed a 3x5 easy (giving 180), and a 4x4 challenging (giving 290).

stanstar
01-31-2014, 09:44 AM
I have logic-puzzles on my android phone and on ipad, they are so addictive and great fun.
Also passes time at work, but ssshhhhhhh ;)

Have fun at work GH as long as you are not an air traffic controller! :eek:

Stan

stanstar
01-31-2014, 09:58 AM
I wish you luck. Let us know how you are getting on ok?

I timed myself on a challenge 4x5 and I took 30 minutes. It took me 5 minutes to read the clues and fill the grid with X's. Xisa completed the entire puzzle in 2 minutes 17 secs. I am amazed that in half the time I took to read and enter the clues on the grid Xisa had finished completely. That seems impossible. I did the same thing with the next puzzle and it took me
41 mins and about 5 minutes to read & enter the first round of x's Niki finished the entire puzzle in 3mins 9 secs. Also incredible. I am still struggling to beat my record of 16 minutes.

Stan

EDIT I just beat my record for a challenge 4x5 @ 14.73 minutes

stanstar
02-02-2014, 04:21 PM
Well ever so slowly. I have yet to get into an average time. It looks far off mind you, considering the amount of talented people here. Incidentally, this must be the world championship site of Logic Problems. Wouldn't the Admins agree? Wouldn't the members here agree? I must thank the Admins for the standard of explanation of the hints.That must be an excellent programmer who did the work. I have just finished two puzzles and cannot still believe the record times. Niki had another one in a really rediculous time of 3 minutes. It took me 5minutes to run down the clues and mark of a first time lot of x's and maybe the odd positive clue. It took me another hour to complete. Ridiculous. Do the really super fast players have very high IQ's? Do they play other games like chess, bridge etc? I think they could get a great job with either the intellence agencies or at least the police. What say you?


Stan

uigrad
02-02-2014, 05:06 PM
If it makes you feel any better Stan, getting "an average time" is far better than a time equal to "an average player's average time". I wouldn't be surprised at all that you are faster than half the users here, just because there are so many users who solve 1-3 puzzles, and then quit, and never try another puzzle.

I wouldn't be surprised if half the puzzles solved are solved by the same 5% of users. The people trying to get trophies are solving thousands of puzzles each month, and so seeing how your time compares to the others in the graph is basically showing how you compare with that small group of people. For each person in the top 50, there are probably hundreds who get frustrated and quit after doing just a few puzzles.

sadiagardezis
02-02-2014, 06:35 PM
how abt people doing a 4x7 easy puzzle in 53 seconds ????? lol

Alethea
02-02-2014, 09:24 PM
It's fun to see how each of us have different goals and how some of them relate to competing against others, while some of them are against ourselves. That's what makes these kinds of games so challenging - there's no competition like pushing yourself to exceed your last best effort! I am excited to say that I've accomplished my goal of at least 5 record-breaking times in all puzzle sizes except the 4x7. But I'm working on it! :) Maybe, after this, I'll try to play often and well enough to earn a trophy somehow.

sunrise
02-03-2014, 03:49 AM
it's also fascinating to watch the skill progression, the more you play the better you get

stanstar
02-03-2014, 08:15 AM
how abt people doing a 4x7 easy puzzle in 53 seconds ????? lol

Really? Did you see that record? Amazing time. How can anyone read the clues so fast, understanding the clues and filling in the grid in 53 seconds? Who was the member? Can you remember? I would love to watch a video of them doing it, that would be interesting wouldn't it?

Stan

Alethea
02-03-2014, 08:33 AM
Some of the times truly are impressive! One thing that can shave off several minutes is to attempt to only work in the top section of squares (the first row of blocks across the top - you know, the ones that must be filled before your solution can be submitted). It's easier to do this with some puzzles than with others, but it can really shorten your time!

stanstar
02-03-2014, 10:40 AM
Some of the times truly are impressive! One thing that can shave off several minutes is to attempt to only work in the top section of squares (the first row of blocks across the top - you know, the ones that must be filled before your solution can be submitted). It's easier to do this with some puzzles than with others, but it can really shorten your time!

Hi Alethia, how can that be done? Because some clues are given that have to be x'd out below that top grid? I have had some puzzles that ONLY have clues which can be x'd out below the top grid. If you can give an example of doing what you say I would be pleased to see it myself.

I always have to write the clues down on paper which are the Toby bought the hat 1 day before Sam bought his item. Also I write down the Of A and B one is C and the other is D kind. I even write down the clues like: Tony is either London or the Blue hat.
It looks obvious that the record solvers don't write anything down. How that can be done I know not. Maybe the record holders can clarify this for the slower solvers?

Stan

Alethea
02-03-2014, 01:41 PM
Hi, Stan :)
I think it's mainly practice. Most puzzles can be done only in the top row if the clues are filled in there first, skipping clues that only pertain to the lower rows. Eventually, even the lower-row clues have limited possibilities in the top, and the answers become more obvious. Also, rather than writing things down, it seems to work to fill in what you can, as you can. Order is not important, as the clues and answers have a way of working themselves out as you go on.:)

uigrad
02-03-2014, 03:09 PM
I agree with Alethea that this helps tremendously for me getting my times down.

There's a trick to doing it, and it's simply to use memory for stuff that isn't in the top section. Instead of marking clues in the other sections, I'll commit them to memory whenever possible. There's probably a lot of other things you need to learn first before you can start doing that though.

When I first started doing these puzzles, I would read that "Between A & B, one is C, and one is D". I would start to apply this to my chart, and then forget what I was doing in the middle. I had to look back at the clue to remember what I was doing.

Once I corrected that, then I began working on doing that flawlessly without errors. I trained my eyes to just see "A" "B" "C" "D", and not think to hard about the rest of the words.

After that, I finally began to restrict myself to just the grids in the top (as Alethea suggested). This is further extension of my memory. If a clue says that Chris paid less than person who got soda, I mark that Chris is not in the bottom row, and soda is not in the top row, but I don't mark that "Chris is not soda". Instead, I simply commit it to memory.

I can use this technique for easy 3x4 puzzles. And, I've recently gotten so that I can use it for many 4x4 easy puzzles (but not all, some have a lot of clues outside of the top area). I can't use it for 4x5 or larger yet. My memory is just not good enough.

It's for this reason that I stick with 4x4 easy puzzles (and smaller) when I'm going for points. Getting points requires speed. As much fun as larger puzzles are, I can't compete on them, because my speed isn't there.

Stan, I'd recommend going back to 3x4 puzzles and just working on them for a while, until you get fast at them. They may begin to get boring after a while, but since memorization is easier on them, you'll probably increase your speed the fastest by practicing with them.

Also, it is worth mentioning that if you click on a clue, then it goes away. If I get a clue that I can put in the chart completely (ie. A and B and C and D are all different customers), then I do mark them in the chart (even if they are not in the top portion), and then click on the clue, so I don't have to look at it any more. I only try to memorize the clues that can't be fully represented in the chart anyway.

Quiltbee
02-03-2014, 04:15 PM
I played like a maniac for a couple of months three years ago or so. Lots of it is just practice, the more you play the faster you can fill in the grid.

With the old site, there were lots of puzzles that were essentially the same in structure, just the story and the names were different. I have an elephant's memory, and I soon started recognizing patterns. After a while I knew which clues I had to look at first to see the pattern emerge. And that is exactly the reason why I stopped playing... I could solve many puzzles really fast but it just got boring. So I am happy to see the new site :)

What I did though was print some of the puzzles and challenge myself to solve them just filling in the top section. It is not necessary to fill in the whole grid to solve a puzzle, it is just helpful because it makes it easier to see things. So in the end it all comes down to practice, I guess.

stanstar
02-04-2014, 06:04 AM
My thanks to Alethia, uigrad and QuiltB for the advice given above. I'll try to put into practice the above tips.

Stan

sadiagardezis
02-04-2014, 10:35 AM
stanstar i have not only seen it with my own eyes but many times.all i keep thinking is mensa club is here

stanstar
02-04-2014, 11:04 AM
stanstar i have not only seen it with my own eyes but many times.all i keep thinking is mensa club is here

Hi sadiagardezis, what exactly have you seen many times? I agree with you, Mensa is indeed here. I am definitely not short on the IQ stakes but it is bewildering to see many impossible looking times.

Stan

sadiagardezis
02-04-2014, 12:44 PM
what i meant was after i complete a puzzle and check the record time for its completion sometimes it is less than 60 seconds that too for a 4x7 puzzle type.to accomplish such a feat one not only needs a very high IQ but fine motor skills too.Anyway they are impressive.next time i'll try to remember the contestant's name and let you know.hope that answers your question.

stanstar
02-04-2014, 01:41 PM
Thanks sadia. I have noticed that after I finish a 4x5 challenge level, Niki has set another record for that puzzle. I did one an hour or so and I was pleased with my quick time of 22 minutes and saw niki did it in 4 mins or thereabouts. I cannot read the clues and make the x's on the initial pass in that short time. I think to myself the record holders for the puzzle have it finished completely by that time.

Stan

stanstar
02-04-2014, 04:17 PM
Hi sadiagardezis, I just finished a 4x5 challenge which took me an hour. I found it so difficult. Lo and behold the record was set by yourself at 4.4 minutes! You are one of them! It was #1467759 Dr Quinn, Dr Salinas Bale hahn

Stan

sadiagardezis
02-05-2014, 05:29 AM
dear stanstar yes i have broken a few records for 4x5 or smaller puzzles i guess it was pure dumb luck.i wish i were like the others.

stanstar
02-07-2014, 01:38 PM
I just did a 4x5 challenge in 12.2 minutes my best time ever on those types. Still on the slow and trying for average. smyth1mm did it in record time 2.99minutes! Well done! I found a few more with viki as record holder on another 3.


Stan

sadiagardezis
02-08-2014, 05:13 AM
i am so glad for you.when i do a puzzle quickly i feel euphoric.lol

stanstar
02-08-2014, 09:30 AM
You must feel euphoric quite a lot. I see you are way up with the best solvers. No.42 Congrats.

Stan

stanstar
02-09-2014, 09:50 AM
I don't seem to be getting much faster. Although recently I did a challenge 4x5 in 12.2 minutes, I still take as long as an hour or even 72minutes the other day there. Sometimes to my dismay I notice that my effort is the one at the Right hand side of the graph. I feel a wee bit fed up when I see that. Because I am not in the top hundred, is there a way where I can see my rankings. If I could see my rankings improve, I would be encouraged. Is it my age? I am 67. Maybe I'm too old to improve. Maybe the ADMIN can tell me my ranking?

Stan

I just done 4x5 challenge type 23 mins = slow vaskeet record 3.9 mins

stanstar
02-17-2014, 02:07 PM
Well done for a record of just 4minutes for the 4x5 challenge puzzle it took me 57 minutes to solve. I thought near that time I would have to ask for a hint but I managed it. How the heck can you do that? Can you give us a hint or three please?

Stan

sadiagardezis
02-17-2014, 04:08 PM
thank you stanstar.i try to fill in the upper boxes only.i avoid lower grid no matter how stuck i am because it is very time consuming.plus i remove all the positive clues or the clues that i am done with asap.trust me age has nothing to do with it.when i started i used to take a long long time.however with practice i am better now.i am sure you are going to get better.

stanstar
02-18-2014, 10:04 AM
I have tried filling in the top boxes only.I cannot see how it helps. The last time I tried it most of the clues only appertained to the lower boxes. The top rows were completely empty. If you have a clue about the lower boxes and ignore that, how do you put any x's or green spots in the top boxes?.

Stan

stanstar
02-18-2014, 10:53 AM
Ok sadiagardezis here is one I tried following your advice.
I could only mark 22 x's on top. I didn't mark any of the positive clues down i.e. Audrey = 16.9 million and Freda = 12.5million. I post the state of affairs I had on the top boxes.With only these 22 x's to go on can you show me the process you use only using the top big boxes please?


here are the clues 1.*Neither the storm that made landfall at Tomales nor the storm that hit in 1956 was Hurricane Velma.
2.*The storm that caused $17.4 million in damage hit 12 years after the hurricane that made landfall at Alta Vista.
3.*Hurricane Velma didn't strike in 1960.
4.*The hurricane that made landfall at Tomales hit sometime before Hurricane Mabel.
5.*The hurricane that made landfall at Tomales hit 4 years before the storm that caused $18.5 million in damage.
6.*Hurricane Audrey caused $16.9 million in damage.
7.*The hurricane that made landfall at Hesperia was either the storm that caused $18.5 million in damage or Hurricane Freda.
8.*Of the storm that hit in 1948 and the storm that hit in 1944, one hit land at Tomales and the other caused $12.5 million in damage.
9.*The storm that hit in 1956 didn't make landfall at Rockford.
10.*Hurricane Gwendolyn didn't cause exactly $13.1 million in damage.
11.*Hurricane Freda caused $12.5 million in damage.

uigrad
02-18-2014, 03:06 PM
Stan, his hint (which is very good) is for easy puzzles. No one bothers with the moderate or challenging puzzles, because they aren't as good for scoring. If I do moderate or challenging puzzles, I know that I'll need the whole grid, and don't even bother trying to stay in the top portion.

I try very hard to stay in the top section, but it's not a hard and fast rule. If a puzzle is a difficult one, I end up using the whole grid, but I can usually solve easy ones with just a few marks in the bottom part.

Generally, I start by marking the clues that can be entirely represented in the grid. Even if they aren't in the top section, I do them completely so that I can make them go away. After that, I begin working in the top section as much as possible, and only go down to the lower sections if I get stuck.

I took an easy 4x4 puzzle, and solved it, taking screenshots throughout. It ended up being a bit easier than average, so I stayed almost exclusively in the top section. I made a tutorial, and placed it here:

http://imgur.com/a/OL2LX

With a puzzle like this, I can usually be within 20-30 seconds of the record time, and occasionally, I can even score a new record! Hope that helps!

EDIT: In your puzzle, look at clue #7. The columns for Freda and $18.5M both have X's in the lowest two rows. So you can mark X's for Hesperia also. Now, after you have that, you know the city for 1956!

Also, clues like your #6 and #11 are so good that I would mark them immediately, even though they aren't in the top section.

sadiagardezis
02-18-2014, 04:24 PM
stanstar as uigrad has explained some clues the puzzle becomes easier.hesperia can only be 12.5 or 18.5 hence it can't be in 1956 or 60.as for 1944 and 1948 it can't be velma because she is not from tomales.so she is in 1952. mabel hit sometime after tomales she cannot be before 1956.according to your grid you have established the only two possible cities that can be in 1944 and 1948.you can cross out the rest of the cities from there.this really does save time even if you dont know the exact year of respective cities.as there can only be two storms in the upper two years and one of them is freda you can cancel out all other names of storms that cannot be in tomales from upper two rows.likewise with years or whatever puzzle that you are doing.i hope that i was able to get my point across i am not very good at explaining.

stanstar
02-18-2014, 04:25 PM
Thank you Uigrad, I watched your tutorial it is good. I would get too bored doing easy ones. I much prefer the 4x5 Challenge types. At least when I solve one I get a buzz which I like. I'm not here after all to aquire trophies, I am here for fun. I get it too! With the help of some of the the top 100 players here, like yourself, Sadiagardezis, Zenobia43, Alethia, pcuser and all, I have great fun. Mind you these puzzles are a wee bit addictive aren't they?
It will be interesting to read sadiagardesiz's reply.

Stan

stanstar
02-19-2014, 06:24 AM
My first time made average of 15.8 min for a 4x5 challenge. Niki of course did it record time of 4 minutes! Watch out zenobia43 I am getting faster! :D


Stan

aliciacoral
02-19-2014, 02:05 PM
Yes -- this game is ssssooooo addicting!

stanstar
02-19-2014, 02:26 PM
There seems to be posts missing. I have two missing and sadiagardexis has one. Where have they gone admin?

Stan

uigrad
02-19-2014, 05:31 PM
I wondered the same thing. They are listed in the sidebar, but they don't appear here.

EDIT: Hit reload and they appeared! Congrats on your new best time!

I've come close to getting a record on a 4x6 now... that's been my goal for a while. My time was 252s, and the record was 242!

admin
02-19-2014, 05:36 PM
http://www.logic-puzzles.org/forum/showthread.php?t=426

sadiagardezis
02-20-2014, 01:21 AM
well as you know that some posts were missing due to spam.i am doing mostly 4x7 easy/moderate puzzles nowadays.due to some server problems sometimes i am not able to submit solutions for as long as 8 to 10 hours which has affected my overall average.otherwise i too enjoy doing the challenging ones only.congratulations stanstar on improving your average.

stanstar
02-20-2014, 01:35 PM
stanstar as uigrad has explained some clues the puzzle becomes easier.hesperia can only be 12.5 or 18.5 hence it can't be in 1956 or 60.as for 1944 and 1948 it can't be velma because she is not from tomales.so she is in 1952. mabel hit sometime after tomales she cannot be before 1956.according to your grid you have established the only two possible cities that can be in 1944 and 1948.you can cross out the rest of the cities from there.this really does save time even if you dont know the exact year of respective cities.as there can only be two storms in the upper two years and one of them is freda you can cancel out all other names of storms that cannot be in tomales from upper two rows.likewise with years or whatever puzzle that you are doing.i hope that i was able to get my point across i am not very good at explaining.

Many thanks Sagiagardezis for your instruction. I followed it through and got some positives and a number of negatives more than I had originally.

Stan

stanstar
02-20-2014, 01:57 PM
I seem to be improving very slowly. I think it has something to do with age. I think I have done about 450 puzzles in total. I visited this site over a year ago after doing maybe 50 puzzles. I returned here in December last and have done maybe 400 more. I notice in the top 100 players quite a few have done less puzzles than I have. I am guessing, but I think those players are young. I have played competitive chess for many years and I know for a fact that after the age of 40 or thereabouts there is not much improvement. I mean to say that in other sports footballers for example certainly DO NOT improve their skills after 30 years old. In chess for example the most rapid learners are children up to age 17 ish. I used to coach a boy of 5 years until he was 14. When he was 13 I could beat him 50 out of 50 games. Six months later he got a draw and I won 49. Six months later he won 36 and I 14. Six months later he won all 50. In the chess olympiad a few years ago he beat (check mated) DeFirmian the American Champion Grandmaster. Google Karadeniz v De Firmian and play the game.
The only elder person I can see in the top 10 is reilysnana who must be around at least 40 and most probably with a very high IQ. I think there is little hope I could make it to the top 100.

Stan

stanstar
02-20-2014, 02:01 PM
I am guessing here again, but I think the top players here have very high IQ's. What does anyone else think?

Stan

stanstar
02-27-2014, 05:09 AM
My record now for a 4x5 challenge 11.75 mins

Stan

Legend
03-01-2014, 07:33 PM
Good job Stan!

I'm by no means the fastest person here, but one thing I have found that shaves time is to do the specific lesser/greater clues first.

For example: A is X amount less than B or C is X amount greater D. That helps me eliminate some relationships early on. (I only use that tip if it offers an exact amount though, not just A is less than B). After that, I do the 5 people are, and then go on from there to try and solve the puzzle.

I hope I made sense, but I feel like I didn't!

sadiagardezis
03-04-2014, 01:06 AM
i am really happy for you.you are good at chess it means you're iq level is quite high.i believe skills can be improved at any age .all one needs is patience and will .no matter what challenge i face i believe that i can will be able to do it one day if i try harder and i do try harder.my family says i am simply being stubborn :)

stanstar
03-05-2014, 03:14 AM
My record for challenge type 4x5 is now 9.16 minutes. Maybe it was an easy one? I don't know but nicyo did a record of 2.81 mins.

Stan

Sadiagardezzis maybe you are right.

yvmaxwell
03-05-2014, 10:20 AM
Good FOR U STAN. i HAD SAME PROBLEM TOO BUT CONTINUE TO IMPROVE MY TIME. I TOO AM AMAZED HOW FAST SOME PEOPLE ARE. JUST READING THRU CLUES TAKES ME THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME!! I JUST WORK ON SETTING PERSONAL RECORDS. I WAS NEVER INTERESTED IN TIME WHEN I FIRST FOUND THE WEBSITE. JUST DID PUZZLES FOR FUN BUT NOW I ENJOY TRYING TO BEAT MY TIMES OR GET HI POINT VALUES.

psyker6
03-05-2014, 01:05 PM
I solved a 4x7 Challenging without any hints today for the first time. Tried another one and got totally stumped.

stanstar
03-05-2014, 05:24 PM
Can anyone help explain this one. A 4x5 challenge type.

1.*The ring made of platinum cost more than the ring with the topaz.
2.*Jacquelyn's piece is either the piece made of 18k gold or the ring with the sapphire.
3.*Opal's piece doesn't have the topaz.
4.*Neither the piece that cost $1100 nor the piece made of silver is Felicia's piece.
5.*Jacquelyn's ring doesn't have the amethyst.
6.*The piece with the ruby cost 200 dollars more than the ring with the topaz.
7.*Of Felicia's ring and Natasha's piece, one is made of platinum and the other has the ruby.
8.*The ring made of 18k gold cost 200 dollars more than the ring with the diamond.
9.*The ring made of silver cost 200 dollars less than the ring made of 14k gold.
10.*The piece made of 14k gold has the sapphire.

HINT:*There are multiple greater/lesser than clues that place topaz and silver both at the same exact step distance from two different items in the same category. This means topaz cannot be equal to silver. Mark the highlighted cell as FALSE.

Stan

zenobia43
03-06-2014, 06:31 AM
You already have 14k = sapphire in your grid (from clue 10).

Combine this with clues 6 and 9 like this:

Clue 6: topaz -> -> ruby
Clue 9: silver -> -> 14K/sapphire

Notice that the right sides of these two inequalities are the same step distance from the left, and notice that the right side options of ruby and sapphire are in the same category.

Since ruby and sapphire can never be in the same row, and since they are a fixed distance from topaz and silver, then topaz and silver cannot be in the same row.

ClrC
03-06-2014, 08:12 AM
Clue 10 tells us 14k gold is sapphire.
Clue 9 tells us that silver is $200 less than gold.
Combining the two tells us that silver is $200 less than sapphire.
Meanwhile clue 6 tells us that topaz is $200 less than ruby.
If topaz is $200 less than ruby, it can't also be $200 less than sapphire (like silver is) so therefore topaz cannot be silver.

Does that help?

loramir
03-06-2014, 08:42 AM
Silver is two steps ($200) less than 14k gold(hint #9)
14k gold = sapphire (hint #10) so silver is two steps ($200) less than sapphire
Topaz is two steps ($200) less than ruby (hint #6)

Sapphire & ruby are in the same category so can't have the same value.
Therefore ruby - 2 (topaz) and sapphire - 2 (silver) can't be equal.
Therefore topaz can't be equal to silver.

Hopefully that makes sense :)

MissMarie
03-06-2014, 09:12 AM
It looks like I finally understand those :) The explanation is the same as last time. Look at these two clues:

6.*The piece with the ruby cost 200 dollars more than the ring with the topaz.
9.*The ring made of silver cost 200 dollars less than the ring made of 14k gold.

First let's put clue #9 the other way around:

"The ring made of 14k gold cost 200 dollars more than the ring made of silver."

Now you can directly compare those two clues. Looking at your grid, you know already that the ring made of 14K gold is the one with the sapphire, so it is NOT the one with the ruby.

So you know that the ruby cost 200 more than the topaz and another than the ruby (i.e. the sapphire) cost 200 more than the silver ring. If you pair topaz and silver, then the ruby and the sapphire would both cost exactly 200 more than the topaz/silver ring, meaning two items in the same category would have the same price which is impossible. Therefore topaz cannot be paired with silver.

stanstar
03-06-2014, 06:08 PM
Good on you psyker, keep at it! I did a 4x5 challenge in my record time and the following one I was over an hour! I find some puzzles are more difficult than others even though they are labelled the same difficulty. I have also found that it depends on where you put your attention that matters too. I had a difficult one where I could not go any further and quit it and tried again from the start. Guess what? I had it completed in 20 minutes almost without thinking. The puzzles are great, nevertheless.

Stan

stanstar
03-06-2014, 07:11 PM
Good on you psyker, keep at it! I did a 4x5 challenge in my record time and the following one I was over an hour! I find some puzzles are more difficult than others even though they are labelled the same difficulty. I have also found that it depends on where you put your attention that matters too. I had a difficult one where I could not go any further and quit it and tried again from the start. Guess what? I had it completed in 20 minutes almost without thinking. The puzzles are great, nevertheless.

Stan

stanstar
03-30-2014, 06:58 PM
I have now played 819 puzzles. Most of them since Dec last year. I did maybe 30 a few years ago, where incidentally Zenobia43 helped me with some difficult ones. What I find awesome is the record times for a 4x5 challenge type puzzle. I mean I see the record time every time I complete a puzzle. I actually timed myself with a stopwatch on my desktop and it takes me on average 4-5 minutes just to read the clues and put in the appropriate x's and if I'm lucky a few O's too. This is how long it takes me if I am not disturbed by my wife or my grandson coming in and talking to me. Everyone knows here that after a first stage of reading the clues and marking off the appropriate boxes we have to go through again checking what has changed in relation to the first time going through it all. There are usually a few more X's to put in the boxes and if we are lucky a positive. The positive usually gives us a few more X's and so on. I find usually but not always there is a point at which I struggle to find another X somewhere, and when I do the puzzle is usually solved. OK? My question is, how can the TOP SOLVERS do this time and time again so quickly? I mean I have noticed record holders to these 4x5's challenge difficulty in 2 minutes and a few seconds. Have you guys and gals at the top got photographic memories? I HAVE to write on paper the lesser/greater clues and the A or B is either C or D type and the A is either B or C type. That all takes time. The fastest solvers obviously don't have to write anything on paper with a pen if they did they would NEVER do the puzzle in the record times that they do. Anyone care to enlighten some of us in the dark?

Stan

MicahFFX
03-31-2014, 12:09 AM
Reading speed varies for different people. I read more than twice as fast as my daughter, with much higher comprehension. (For reference, I can read a typical 350 page paperback in about three hours.) This gives me an edge reading clues. I can skim a clue and quickly know if it is saying A is B, A is not B, A is more or less than B, and so on. If I'm not spending time marking boxes, I can read the clues of a 4x5 puzzle in about 30 seconds. If I'm marking boxes, it can take one to two minutes depending on the puzzle.

Beyond that, I find my speed varies a lot from puzzle to puzzle dependent on several things. Puzzles with lots of numbers are harder than words. One with the number of friends on each of thee social media is the worst. Earthquakes with years and minutes and strength is also a challenge. Irregular number gaps also throw me off. One of my least favorite is times that are half an hour apart, then one clue will say 150 minutes. Another is finishing one puzzle with things a dollar apart and the next puzzle they're two minutes apart. The sequence of clues and how many of certain types can make a lot of difference. Some puzzles feel way harder to find the connections than others.

zenobia43
03-31-2014, 07:14 AM
Let's construct a puzzle using just the clue types found on this site.

The B category will be userids from the site, the C category will be backstory labels, and the D category will be the factor that helped the userid set a new record time.

The A category will be the new record time, and the distances between the times will be uniform just like all the puzzles in this site's library.

The clues in this new backstory could be used to convey the "tricks" used to get a better record time.

Other than coming up with a puzzle or two using this suggested backstory, I really can't add anything new to all the excellent posts I've seen on this subject. In the past few years, there have been so many posts on this subject, and I learned most of what I know from those posts.

If you're just enjoying this site and getting your daily dose of brain vitamins, then you probably don't need to set a new record.

If you're really serious about solving the more difficult puzzles, whenever you get stuck, print out the puzzle showing the grid state where you got stuck. Study it until you see the logical deductions that eluded you. Put that new knowledge in your puzzle solving toolkit.

The new hint system is very instructive, and when combined with the new tutorials, you will probably be faster at recognizing the techniques used to make certain puzzles more difficult than others.

The geniuses behind this site created 18,000 puzzles for your enjoyment. They used a wide variety of techniques to vary the level of difficulty.

Some were made more difficult by confusion factors like label duplication, similarity, varying A category distances (among backstories), and clue verbosity and number.

Some puzzles were made more difficult by the nature of the logic chains needed to obtain a key deduction.

After solving thousands of puzzles, you will probably pick up on most of the cleverness behind the puzzle construction. You will be a lot faster in recognizing the "tricks" used in any given puzzle.

If you're really serious about setting a new record, start doing the puzzles that have less traffic. After all, if you're the first one to solve the puzzle, you're going to hold the record. You can make a good guess about which puzzles are getting the traffic by observing the record setting sidebar on the leaderboard page.

Repetition, focus, analysis, clue processing order. These are all factors mentioned in previous posts that lead to faster times and better solution success rates.

With repetition, you won't read the whole clue anymore. In your list of clues, Stan, you show this clue:

1.*The ring made of platinum cost more than the ring with the topaz.

With repetition you will read this clue as plat > topaz. You won't even see the other words.

With repetition, when you see a particular backstory, you will know the A category distance instantly. You will instantly remember that you have to be careful about peppermint showing up in two different categories. You will instantly remember that Cory and Corey or Hannah and Hanna or Felipe and Phillip are clever cognitive speed bumps introduced by the puzzle creators.

So far, I haven't added anything new to previous posts.

Here's something that might help you with the most difficult (my assessment) 4x7s. This won't help with the bulk of the puzzles, but it will help you with a few of the toughest 4x7s (my opinion).

There are a few 4x7s that have what I call "3 for 3" and "4 for 4" situations. The tutorials describe "2 for 2" (aligned pseudo-pairs?) situations, but these "3 for 3s" and "4 for 4s" are harder to spot.

The "3 for 3" is a situation where 3 rows have open cells involving only 3 other columns, and those 3 columns have open cells involving only the same three rows.

If you get totally stuck on one of these, and you have checked all the many ways the fixed distance greater than/less than clues can be combined with the grid state to hide the next X from you, look for the "3 for 3" or "4 for 4" pattern.

I think there is a "3 for 3" in the 4x6 toughies, but I think the "4 for 4s" are mainly in the 4x7 brain busters.

stanstar
04-01-2014, 06:34 PM
Thank you for your instructions. I will keep these 33's and 44's advice when I advance to the harder puzzles. At the moment I am trying to get the better of the challenge 4x5's which I find are difficult enough. At times I really do give up and ask for a hint sometimes and it is quite obvious that I missed an easy X somewhere. Sometimes in my haste to see how quick I can finish I overlook a simple clue and I feel stupid. I do love solving them though. They are beginning to come into my dreams actually. I am getting worried! :o
Oh what the heck, I'll do another few more and then go to sleep. ;)

Stan

stanstar
04-02-2014, 01:38 PM
I have just finished a 4x5 challenge type in 20.7 minutes WITHOUT writing anything down on paper. Purely looking at clues and filling in grid. Not even a scribble on paper. Took me a wee bitty longer than if I had used paper and pen. A first time for that though.

Stan

PS Not as much fun though. More tense.

stanstar
04-08-2014, 10:36 AM
It would be interesting to see who are the fastest solvers of any given puzzle type. For example I prefer doing the challenge 4x5 kinds. I notice that smyth1mm very often has a record on these types. It would be interesting to see something like : smyth1mm 300 times record. Zenobia43 290 times. Alethia 200 times. slillyw 190 times etc.For example in the monthly competitions there must be certainly fast solvers who cannot play hundreds of times a month due to having other important things to do in their busy lives.This would at least give the faster solvers recognition sort of thing. The list could account for records being beaten and perhaps record holders being deleted for that game. Only new records being acknowledged.

Stan

stanstar
04-22-2014, 08:22 AM
If anyone wonders why in the 4x5s challenge types there are many ridiculous slow times well beyond 10000 secs it most likely is my fault. I get interrupted a lot and leave the computer running while I go out for a few hours. I come home and realize what I've done and finish it. Perhaps this helps to spread the graph at the right. Maybe not. Anyway I apologize and I will try to remember.

Stan

universalmom
04-22-2014, 05:15 PM
Oh, I'm doing my share in that category too! My mistake is starting one when I really don't have enough time...I hit "save progress" and come back to it later, but the clock is still running and my time is really long.

stanstar
04-23-2014, 05:46 AM
I do that too. Between the two of us we will take the blame!

Stan

Alethea
04-23-2014, 05:49 AM
You two are so funny :) I am sure no one minds the graph being skewed because you have lives and don't always exit your puzzles before you go and live them. Have a wonderful day!

universalmom
04-23-2014, 08:24 AM
Thanks Alethea, you're very sweet! Stan, I like the "at present UK" in your location...do I detect a political opinion there? ;)

stanstar
04-23-2014, 10:30 AM
Hi Universalmom, the less we have to do with Westminster the better as far as I'm concerned. A parliament with fewer politicians seems like a better idea. However saying that, I don't trust any politicians. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of English friends and I wouldn't swap them for anything. But National politics is a different matter. The Scottish people were never consulted when the Union was formed. The aristocrats decided to join with England for their own purposes not for reasons that the Scottish people would find beneficial. Remember the Scottish young men were involuntary conscripted into the English army to fight their greedy wars and form colonies for the rich. Does that answer your question? I would be Universalstan if I could get a humane world government free of corruption and dishonesty.

Stan

Alethea
04-23-2014, 11:43 AM
I wish the world were more honest like you do, Stan! In the meantime, though, wishing you the best on the upcoming referendum. Independence just feels like the right thing for so many reasons.

universalmom
04-23-2014, 01:53 PM
I agree Stan, and I hope my question didn't offend you - I just enjoyed the "U.K. for now" byline! I think your cause is just, and I hope the referendum goes well.

stanstar
04-23-2014, 02:43 PM
Thank you ladies. Things could hardly be worse with an independent Scotland. Even if it were worse we could try to make it better for all. We already have free medicines on prescription which the rest of the UK do not have, with our devolved parliament.

Back to fun, another 4x5 challenge type to complete before I watch a film. I just love these puzzles!!

Stan

stanstar
04-24-2014, 02:20 AM
Just noticed our newcomer Schnargle at the top this month. What a performance! And such a quantity too! I wonder if Schnargle sleeps. I venture to guess he/she does them in sleep too! Congratulations Schnargle.

Stan

stanstar
04-24-2014, 06:46 PM
I was really struggling to get further with this 4x5 challenge type. What is the next move?

Stan

MicahFFX
04-25-2014, 12:59 PM
Is there a clue that states that Pegasus was a month after Vicki (Escape) (goblin shark)? If so, then Liberty, Orion, and Osprey cannot be June.

zenobia43
04-25-2014, 06:19 PM
Wow! MicahFFX deduced the clue from the grid state. That's impressive! :)

If MicahFFX is correct, then continuing on the theme of deducing the clues from the grid state .. it looks like Liberty and hammerhead might be a fixed distance apart (one month).

If Liberty and hammerhead are one month apart, then we have:

Escape, Vicky -> Pegasus
Liberty -> hammerhead

Since Escape and Liberty are in the same category and they are both one month away from Pegasus and hammerhead, it follows that Pegasus cannot be hammerhead.

That will leave only one option for hammerhead.

This is a great new twist on these logic puzzles. Deduce the clues.

stanstar
04-26-2014, 02:40 PM
I am sorry to both Zenobia43 and Micahffz for having lost the clues. I forgot to copy and paste. I am quite forgetful these days. I hope that senility is not around my corner.

Stan

I'm sure there will be lots of other puzzles where I am stumped.

zenobia43
04-26-2014, 02:51 PM
Well, if you were feeling clueless at the point where you were stumped, then your post was actually quite accurate. :D

I liked MicahFFX's tactic. Generating clues from the grid state vaguely resembles what one has to do when generating one of these puzzles.

As to the senility ... a daily dose of these puzzles should keep everything working up there for a long time to come.

Looking forward to the next stumper. Especially if you get that rare "Once in a blue moon ..." hint.

stanstar
04-26-2014, 03:24 PM
Well you and MicahFFX were clueless too to begin with but that didn't prevent you both from manifesting the clues. I cannot remember what the clues were. I think I did another twenty puzzles after that. Even if I had just finished it, I would be hard pressed to remember the clues.

Stan

sonysquarelove
04-26-2014, 06:34 PM
Are you a Square Enix fan?

MicahFFX
04-26-2014, 08:15 PM
Are you a Square Enix fan?
I'm going to deduce that question is directed toward me. :)

Yes, my nickname is based on the fact I enjoyed Final Fantasy - and that I had renamed the main character of FFX as Micah in my copy which has given me a rather unique internet nick for years. I don't know that I consider myself a "fan", but I have enjoyed many RPGs by Square over the years - Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, and Legend of Mana come to mind.


As to deducing the possible clue, it was just a shot in the dark. If Stanstar had still had the game open, yes would have led to progress (saving a tiny bit of time) and no would simply have led to producing the available clues.