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View Full Version : "Checking" should have a time penalty. A STEEP one.


BillsBayou
01-23-2014, 04:00 PM
I just set a couple of records by using the "Check" button. I do this by guessing on the "Either/Or" clues. If a puzzle has a couple of these and I get the guess right, the puzzle just falls into place because at this point, it's just so easy. I've even set records when I get the guesses wrong.

I don't think this is right. "Check" should cost the user a large time penalty.

For example, let's have a puzzle of boys date girls have food and drinks:
"Of Ted and Alice, one had pizza and the other drank wine."

Let's set Ted to "Not Pizza." Click "Check" and the box doesn't change color. Then Alice must have had wine. Don't forget that Ted didn't date Alice and the couple who had pizza didn't have wine.

Repeat for any other "Of" clues or clues using "either".

If you get it wrong, sure, you take a time penalty for it, but not enough that you've set your ending time anywhere bad.

The key is to set the guess to "NOT". If you were to say "Ted IS pizza" and you're wrong, you suffer THREE time penalties. One for the wrong guess, and the other two because the entire Boy column and Food row are all gray when you click "Check". The upside is that you now know TWO true answers.

The "Check" button has no cost. I think it should have a very steep cost. Or maybe you only get one free "Check" and then the cost goes up for each time you click "Check".

One addition relates to the "Undo" button's capabilities. The "Undo" button seems to know when I've set something to "True" and sets all other values in the Row/Column to false. When the "Check" button finds a "True" error, it should "Undo" the "True". Thus wiping out all the Row/Column "False" values that were set automatically by the game. Any "False" values set by the user would remain and be evaluated by the "Check" feature. This would eliminate the two "True" that are given to the user by the current operation of "Check".

Maybe the program could use the "Undo" feature and roll back to the user's first error. Example: I play the game out and notice a contradiction. Because of an earlier error, the entire board is screwed. When I click "Check", the game rolls back to the earliest error and only charges me for that error (plus, of course, the use of "Check").

sunrise
01-24-2014, 03:53 AM
The check function takes time which costs you seconds no matter what.

If you achieve your high score by cheating, or not thinking, what was the point of doing the puzzle to begin with. This is like steroids and world records, you bring everything down.

I use the check function when I'm pretty sure that my "logic" was correct, just to double check. Some of the more obscure leaps suddenly pop out at me and I'm not sure why I "know" they're true (those of you more experienced probably find them easy). Anyway, there's nothing more embarrassing that hitting the check button 27 steps later and having half the board removed.:confused:

plutoking
01-24-2014, 06:54 AM
Yeah, it's pretty demoralizing to get pretty far into a puzzle only to find out that one of your earlier steps was incorrect, thus negating all of your subsequent work. Checking prevents that from happening. Yes it probably allows some people to cheat, but who cares? I do these puzzles for fun. Besides, since there's so many puzzles, these records are relatively meaningless.

Marelize
01-24-2014, 09:13 AM
Billbayou
I agree full-heartedly.

Golden66
01-24-2014, 11:14 AM
Agree there should be a time penalty for checking.

Those who care about the score don't get cheated as easily, and players like plutoking who care more about the mental exercise aren't affected.

JulieC
03-01-2014, 03:07 PM
I haven't been playing as much, did something change and then change back? When I have an error upon checking, I get hit with huge penalties, I think 120 seconds per mistake. When I have one mistake, I almost always have another, so a minimum of 240 seconds penalty. I use check a lot because I hate back tracking, but my times for puzzles I make a mistake in are generally 5-10 times as much as ones that I don't. I'm not guessing. I think the penalty is plenty steep enough.

Sze770
03-01-2014, 04:20 PM
yup this is very very true
i mean i use it a lot ;) but still its like cheating

yvmaxwell
03-02-2014, 11:21 AM
How do u do a check unless it's a guess then clear errors?

yvmaxwell
03-02-2014, 11:58 AM
Never mind. Figured it out. Just that i've never used or looked at "answers". Always assumed they had all answers on it. So I agree there should be a penalty if your'e trying for points.

Blab
03-03-2014, 06:44 AM
I don't see a check button on any puzzles I do. There is a "clear errors" button, but that always has a steep penalty from what I've seen. What is meant by "checking"?

uigrad
03-03-2014, 10:44 AM
I don't think a steeper penalty would fix anything.

If you are trying for points, and willing to game the system, then they can just pick one of the "A & B are C & D" clues. Make a guess, and check errors. If it is wrong, then just throw the puzzle away and grab another. If it is right, then you just got a huge unfair advantage.

Even if the check errors button was gone completely, people could still use the guess method to get best times. Some puzzles would go badly early, and they would be unsolvable, but for others they would get record times. The main players that would be hurt are those who don't care about points, and just used the "check errors" button to make sure they weren't off track.

yvmaxwell
03-04-2014, 10:56 AM
In response to Blabs. I have the same question.

I do not have a "check" button either, only "clear errors" which does assign a penalty or as I recently learned, one can click on "answers" to the right of "clues" if a choice populates the top tier.

gordonne
03-04-2014, 03:27 PM
How about everyone plays their way and leaves others alone - - its not like your getting anything physical like money as a reward for finishing in record time - - one calls it cheating someone calls it checking their work - - who cares its a game people its supposed to be fun :)

Laura
03-05-2014, 02:00 PM
I hadn't been to the site in months but since last week I've been solving and love the new format. The major overhaul reminds me of the improvement a few years ago for Cryptograms. It's awesome! My scores are lower because I'm rusty and using the largest grids, but I also use the check for errors feature and when there are no errors there's no penalty. As others have said, it's a great time-saver, but personally I'm very glad there's no points penalty when the grid is correct.

I'm amazed at some of the very high scores and quite impressed. There are some really talented people here!!

yvmaxwell
03-17-2014, 09:10 AM
To Blabs: It confused me too at first. Checking is clearing errors. If u check and have no errors then no penalty.