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stanstar
06-04-2012, 10:00 PM
Why has each puzzle not got a number? It would be useful to refer to it among ourselves.

pcuser
06-04-2012, 11:25 PM
I believe that each puzzle is nearly or always randomly generated by the software. Therefore, a number would not be easily available. I also believe the puzzles that are generated can have the same clues in a different order as another puzzle. So, even though the puzzles are equivalent one to the other, they would have different numbers. Hope this helps.

stanstar
06-05-2012, 06:54 PM
Thank you Pcuser. Can you gaive me any idea on completing a very difficult puzzle I tried last night? It was solved I think 35% and there was no positive clues only negative ones. Like brian doesn't eat chocolate, that kind. Anyway I managed to work out only two matches and not very many mismatches. I puzzled my brain for 4hours and absolutely made no further progress. How can these ones be done?

Stan

pcuser
06-06-2012, 02:32 AM
I would need the clues for any attempt at a solution. i would be willing to try.

stanstar
06-06-2012, 03:44 PM
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
FridayFirst Names
Angel
Braydon
Caitlyn
Janiyah
KaileyCookies
almond
black and white
chocolate chip
gingerbread
peanut butterMythological Names
Agamemnon
Cassiopeia
Endymion
Eurydice
Hephaestus

1. The person who named their dog Cassiopeia didn't bake almond cookies.
2. The five individuals are the baker who made peanut butter cookies, the person who named their dog Endymion, the baker who made chocolate chip cookies, Braydon and the person who arrived on Monday.
3. The person who arrived on Monday didn't name their dog Agamemnon.
4. Kailey arrived the day before Janiyah.
5. Among the person who named their dog Hephaestus and Angel, one baked chocolate chip cookies and the other arrived on Wednesday.
6. The five individuals are the person who named their dog Eurydice, Braydon, the person who arrived on Monday, the baker who made gingerbread cookies and the baker who made peanut butter cookies.
7. Janiyah baked gingerbread cookies.
8. The person who arrived on Thursday didn't name their dog Eurydice.
9. The person who named their dog Hephaestus didn't bake peanut butter cookies.
10. The baker who made black and white cookies is not Caitlyn.

thank you

Stan

stanstar
06-06-2012, 04:30 PM
The one I posted above this one was a different one, but nevertheless difficult. I am aged 65 and just started. I am at the moment twice as slow or slower than the average times. I have a lot to learn here. The puzzle I listed about the dogs names and cookies I have only one match the one that was given ie Jaylin makes gingerbread cookies.

suprstarB08
06-08-2012, 03:04 PM
Actually stanstar, you have more information than you think.

2. The five individuals are the baker who made peanut butter cookies, the person who named their dog Endymion, the baker who made chocolate chip cookies, Braydon and the person who arrived on Monday.

6. The five individuals are the person who named their dog Eurydice, Braydon, the person who arrived on Monday, the baker who made gingerbread cookies and the baker who made peanut butter cookies.

Braydon is listed in both of these 5 individual clues so he could not have any of the cookies, dogs, or days listed in these 2 clues. Monday is also listed in both so the same goes for it, none of the clue listed in the 5 individual clues apply and you should have a lot of Xs for them. Peanut butter cookies is the same case. Then they tell you Janiyah made gingerbread cookies and seeing that it is listed in the 5 individual clues you can have many Xs from that too.

I don't know how to explain better, but I did finish the puzzle under the average time. I think more time and experience will help you to do better on these under 50% solved puzzles. Happy Puzzling!

zenobia43
06-09-2012, 06:27 PM
After entering all the Xs from the initial clues and the positive from clue 7, you can prove that Monday = Kailey = black and white = Cassiopeia.

Using clues 2, 3, 5, and 6, prove that Monday = Cassiopeia.

Clue 2: Endymion cannot be Monday because clue 2 implies that they are different people.
Clue 3: Agamemnon cannot be Monday.
Clue 5: Hephaestus must either be Wednesday or chocolate chip and chocolate chip cannot be Monday (clue 2). So Hephaestus cannot be Monday.
Clue 6: Eurydice cannot be Monday because clue 6 implies that they are different people.

So Cassiopeia = Monday.

After filling in the implications of Cassiopeia = Monday in the DC category block (the intersection of cookies and mythological names), you will see that Agamemnon = peanut butter.

Clue 2: Endymion cannot be peanut butter because the clue implies that they are different people.
Clue 6: Eurydice cannot be peanut butter because the clue implies that they are different people.
Clue 9: Hephaestus cannot be peanut butter.
Clue 2: Cassiopeia is Monday and clue 2 implies that Monday and peanut butter are different people. So Cassiopeia cannot be peanut butter.

So Agamemnon = peanut butter.

After filling in all the implications, we now see that Braydon can only be Hephaestus.

Clue 2, 6: Braydon cannot be Endymion or Eurydice.
Clue 2, 6: Braydon cannot be Cassiopeia because Cassiopeia is Monday and Braydon cannot be Monday.
Clue 2, 6: Braydon can no longer be Agamemnon because now Agamemnon is peanut butter, and Braydon cannot be peanut butter.

So Braydon = Hephaestus.

Using clue 6 some more and the implications from the existing positives, we see that Endymion = gingerbread, and the DC category block is easily completed.

Then using clue 4 and all the accumulated implications we can prove that Kailey = Monday.

That completes our proof that Monday = Kailey = black and white = Cassiopeia.

Once we know Kailey = Monday, we know immediately from clue 4 that Janiyah = Tuesday.

Notice how we used clues 2 and 6 many times to get to this point. This is the gist of suprstarB08's post. There was a lot of information in those two clues.

If you get stuck, and assuming that you haven't misplaced an X somewhere, recheck clues that have the form seen in clue 5. There is usually more information there than you can see at first glance.

stanstar
06-13-2012, 07:24 PM
Thank you Bob and zenobia43 your advice helped me a lot.

Still struggling with the -35% ones though.

Stan

zenobia43
06-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Post another tough one if you would like an analysis like the others. I don't want to spoil the fun for you or the others, but it might save you stacks of paper (and time) like I used.

If you see a few of these intial stage walk-throughs, you will start to see the combinations that get you through the crux of the puzzle.

When I finally started to solve the tougher ones, I immediately solved the same puzzle from scratch to make sure I didn't get stuck by the same hidden clue. I.e. I wanted to make sure I actually learned something that I could use in the next puzzle.

stanstar
06-14-2012, 02:24 AM
Hi Zenobia43 How about this difficult one I was stumped with. I think it is about 27%

1. Among Ryan and the person who arrived on Thursday, one lit the vanilla candle and the other planted the bee orchid.
2. The person who arrived on Monday didn't plant the pigeon orchid.
3. The person who arrived on Tuesday didn't light the apple spice candle.
4. The person who lit the freesia candle is not Angelique.
5. Neither Angelique nor the person who planted the lady orchid lit the apple spice candle.
6. Among the person who arrived on Friday and Angelique, one planted the lady orchid and the other planted the pigeon orchid.
7. Linda arrived sometime after the person who lit the freesia candle.
8. The person who lit the vanilla candle didn't plant the pigeon orchid.
9. The person who lit the freesia candle arrived sometime after the person who lit the juniper berry candle.
10. Among Tristen and the person who lit the vanilla candle, one arrived on Tuesday and the other planted the cooktown orchid.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
First Names
Angelique
Erik
Linda
Ryan
Tristen
Orchids
bee orchid
calypso orchid
cooktown orchid
lady orchid
pigeon orchid
Candles
apple spice
bayberry
freesia
juniper berry
vanilla

thank you

Stan

zenobia43
06-14-2012, 12:49 PM
With the initial clues, you can prove that Angelique = pigeon orchid and Friday = lady orchid.

Clue 5: Impies that Angelique and lady orchid have to be different people.
Clue 6: Angelique must be either pigeon orchid or lady orchid, and since she cannot be lady orchid (clue 5), she must be pigeon orchid.

So Angelique = pigeon orchid.

Clue 5: Since Angelique is now pigeon orchid, Friday = lady orchid.

After filling in all the implications of those two positives, you will now see that lady orchid = bayberry.

Clue 6, 7, 9: Since lady orchid is now Friday, and freesia and juniper berry cannot be Friday, lady orchid cannot be freesia or juniper berry.
Clue 5: Lady orchid cannot be apple spice because clue 5 implies that they are different people.
Clue 10: Lady orchid cannot be vanilla because vanilla must be either cooktown or Tuesday, and Tuesday can no longer be lady orchid (lady orchid is Friday).

So lady orchid must be bayberry.

After filling in the implications, you can prove that pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

Clue 8: pigeon orchid cannot be vanilla
Clue 4, 5, 6: pigeon orchid cannot be apple spice or freesia because pigeon orchid is Angelique, and Angelique cannot be freesia (clue 4) or apple spice (clue 5).
Since bayberry is now lady orchid, pigeon orchid cannot be bayberry.

So pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

After filling in all the implications, we will now have Wednesday = Angelique = pigeon orchid = juniper berry.

Clue 7, 9: Freesia is after juniper berry, and we now know that juniper berry is Wednesday. Therefore, freesia must be Thursday or Friday, but fressia cannot be Friday because of clue 7. So freesia must be Thursday.

This will allow you to fill in the AD category block (intersection of weekday and candle) completely, and from there, it should be relatively routine.

Use clue 7 to associate Friday with the correct first name, and use clues 3, 5 an 6 (and all the accumulated implications) to associate Monday with the correct candle.

stanstar
06-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Hi zenobia43 I am with you up to when you say Angelique is Wednesday.
Along the three top boxes I have Angelique either Tues or Wed
Pigeon tues or wed
Juniper tues or wed
And Freezia wed and thur
and Linda thursday and friday.

So how do you get Angelique wednesday?


Stan

zenobia43
06-14-2012, 06:36 PM
You have that juniper berry can only be Tuesday or Wednesday.

Can juniper berry really be Tuesday? Let's find out.

Look at clue 10.

From clue 10, Tuesday can either be vanilla (not juniper berry) or Tristen. So the only way juniper berry can be Tuesday is if Tristen is juniper berry.

Can Tristen be juniper berry?

We know that Angelique is pigeon orchid, and pigeon orchid is juniper berry. So that means Angelique is juniper berry. Too bad for Tristen if he wanted to be juniper berry. Angelique got there first.

So Tristen cannot be juniper berry, and therefore juniper berry cannot be Tuesday.

That eliminates all hope of getting juniper berry to associate with Tuesday.

That leaves only Wednesday for juniper berry, and now you can link up with Angelique and pigeon orchid completing that entire row.

stanstar
06-14-2012, 08:12 PM
Wonderful Zenobia43 that got me there! Are you getting annoyed with me or can you do another one that is impossible as I see it?

Stan

zenobia43
06-14-2012, 09:30 PM
As long as this is helping you determine how to extract the logic from the clues, I'm quite willing.

One thing I learned was that the clues that have the form: "Of Glenda and Beatrice, one left on Friday, and the other likes green tea." are sometimes the most valuable.

These clues give you two positives and all the implications that come from a positive. They're even more valuable if the positives are both in the top category blocks.

So it is worth your while to extract all the logic you can out of clues of that form.

stanstar
06-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Hi Zenobia43 here is a 29.9% that has me stumped.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
First Names
Baylee
Dana
Izabella
Kevin
Kiley
Souvenirs
figurine
kitchen magnet
license plate
snow globe
t-shirt
Instruments
clarinet
french horn
piano
piccolo
viola

1. Either the tourist who bought the novelty t-shirt or the tourist who bought the novelty snow globe arrived on Monday.
2. The person who arrived on Wednesday is not Kiley.
3. The person who arrived on Wednesday is not Baylee.
4. Of the tourist who bought the novelty snow globe and the musician who plays the clarinet, one is Kevin and the other is Izabella.
5. The musician who plays the piccolo is not Kiley.
6. The musician who plays the clarinet is not Izabella.
7. The musician who plays the viola arrived sometime before the tourist who bought the novelty license plate.
8. The tourist who bought the novelty kitchen magnet arrived the day after Baylee.
9. Of Izabella and the tourist who bought the novelty t-shirt, one arrived on Tuesday and the other plays the piano.
10. The tourist who bought the novelty figurine is not Kevin.
11. The five individuals are the person who arrived on Tuesday, the musician who plays the piano, the person who arrived on Thursday, Kiley and the tourist who bought the novelty figurine.

I have Isabella =snowglobe
and Kevin = clarinet
and stuck here, with little hope of getting much further.

Stan

zenobia43
06-15-2012, 02:10 AM
You have Kevin = clarinet and Izabella = snow globe. You get these from the initial pass through the clues.

It turns out that clue 9 is going to help us get to the next positive. That clue has the form I mentioned earlier.

Clues 3, 8, 9, and 11 will be used to prove that Thursday = license plate. We will eliminate all novelties from Thursday so that license plate is the only one possible.

Clue 3, 8: Baylee did not arrive Wednesday, so the kitchen magnet could not have arrived on Thursday (one day after Baylee).
Clue 11: The figurine cannot be Thursday.
Clue 9, 11: Izabella can only be Tuesday or the piano (clue 9), but piano cannot be Thursday (clue 11). That means that Izabella cannot be Thursday, and since Izabella is snow globe, snow globe cannot be Thursday.
Clue 9, 11: The same logic that applies to Izabella applies to the t-shirt, so the t-shirt cannot be Thursday either.

The only possibility left is license plate = Thursday.

Now we're going to prove that only Dana can be figurine by using clues 1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, and the intersection of two columns !!! This is why these harder puzzles are fun to solve.

Clue 9 and the initial pass on the clues: Izabella is snow globe, so she cannot be figurine.
Clues 10 and 11: Kevin and Kiley cannot be figurine.

Now here's the doozy. If you have filled in all the Xs from clues 3, 8, and 9 in the AB category block (intersection of weekdays and first names), Baylee can only be Tuesday and Thursday. In the AC category block, using clues 1 and 11, figurine can only be Wednesday and Friday.

You know what that means: Baylee cannot be figurine because the intersection of the B1 and C1 columns is null.

The only possibility left is: Dana = figurine.

That means Kiley can only be kitchen magnet.

Clue 11: Kiley cannot be figurine.
Izabella: Kiley cannot be snow globe because that belongs to Izabella.
Clue 11 and license plate: Kiley cannot be license plate because license plate is now Thursday, and Kiley cannot be Thursday (clue 11).
Clue 9, 11: Kiley cannot be t-shirt because t-shirt must be Tuesday or piano (clue 9). Tuesday cannot be Kiley (clue 11), and piano cannot be Kiley either (clue 11).

The only possibility left is Kiley = kitchen magnet.

Now Kiley can only be Friday.

Clue 11: Kiley cannot be Tuesday or Thursday
Clue 2: Kiley cannot be Wednesday
Clue 1: Kitchen magnet cannot be Monday, so Kiley cannot be Monday.

Kiley = Friday.

Now clue 8 tells us exactly where Baylee is, and the rest is a breeze.

stanstar
06-15-2012, 04:39 PM
Impecable Zenobia43! I enjoyed that lesson immensely. I now feel up to solving a hard one on my own.
We will see. sigh.
I usually solve the ones 42% and above. Time is not a factor with me it's the fun of solving that's important. Speed comes with practice. I know as I played competitive chess for 30 yrs.

Thank you teacher.

Stan

stanstar
06-15-2012, 10:02 PM
Hi Zenobia43 I tried one at 21.8% as I kept reloading until I could find a puzzle around 35% but it took ages and I just grabbed it. I have no matches and 24 x's. However I did manage to spot that two collums had 3 x's in boxes so I x'd Mateo against Scotch tape.
If you want to help I would appreciate it if not It will be fine. What I would like is when we get all the clues marked in just reading the clues, how do you decide where to attack? Is that very difficult? To me I always seem to pick dead end routes that tell me nothing. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Stan

zenobia43
06-16-2012, 01:43 AM
I remember spending a lot of time and paper on a puzzle involving Mateo.

It was really difficult. I think it had a lot of clues of my favorite form: "Of A and B, blah blah."

You will probably have to make several passes through the clues as you extract everything you can from clues of that form. Basically, you have to keep going through the clues until you make a pass without adding any additional Xs.

If there are clues where category members are a fixed distance from each other in the same category and there are only two choices left for each, remember to X out the overlapping cells for the other members.

If there are multiple ordering clues that involve the same category member, remember to X out the members at the ends. E.g. if A < B and B < C, then A cannot be C.

If you have a lot of Xs, then this puzzle is probably be solved by looking at pairwise intersections of rows and columns in different categories. Anywhere you find a null intersection, you can place an X somewhere. Hopefully it will be a new one that you don't already have.

Oh, and remember to place all the Xs for the "Either..." and "Neither ..." clues. E.g. Either A or B is blah. A and B aren't the same person, so if they aren't in the same category, remember to X out their intersection.

If this doesn't get you to that first positive, then post the info, and I'll see if I can get you there.

stanstar
06-16-2012, 08:33 PM
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
First Names
Elliott
Erika
Lukas
Mateo
Zoey
Tape
duct tape
masking tape
painters tape
paper tape
scotch tape
Coffees
Colombian
Harrar
Sidamo
Toraja Kalossi
Yirgacheffe

1. Of the person who brewed the Toraja Kalossi coffee and the person who bought masking tape, one is Mateo and the other is Elliott.
2. The person who bought scotch tape arrived the day after the person who bought duct tape.
3. Of the person who brewed the Harrar coffee and the person who arrived on Wednesday, one is Zoey and the other bought masking tape.
4. Neither the person who brewed the Colombian coffee nor the person who bought painters tape arrived on Wednesday.
5. Of the person who arrived on Tuesday and the person who brewed the Sidamo coffee, one is Erika and the other bought masking tape.
6. The person who bought duct tape arrived the day after Mateo.
7. The person who arrived on Monday didn't buy painters tape.
8. Of the person who arrived on Wednesday and the person who bought scotch tape, one brewed the Yirgacheffe coffee and the other is Elliott.

Hi again Zenobia43. I've been trying with this one for well over 6hrs.
I will post another below what my thinking is on it.

Stan

stanstar
06-16-2012, 09:00 PM
So far I have Harrar coffee = Tuesday. Sidamo coffee Wednesday. Papertape = Monday.

Harrar coffee = Tuesday. Sidamo coffee= Wednesday because Masking tape is Wed or Harrar coffee, clue 3 or Tues Sidamo coffee.
Masking tape cannot be Tues and Wed
Masking tape cannot be Sidamo and Harrar
So Masking tape must either be Tuesday and Harrar or Wednesday and Sidamo.
Sidamo not Tuesday clue 5. so must be wed.
We also have Erika either Tues or Wed Clue 5
5. Of the person who arrived on Tuesday and the person who brewed the Sidamo coffee, one is Erika and the other bought masking tape.

So Masking tape is Tues or Wed

Zoey is Tues or Wed clue 3 Of the person who brewed the Harrar coffee and the person who arrived on Wednesday, one is Zoey and the other bought masking tape

So we have Zoey and Erika Tues or wed. But Mateo is Tuesday or Wednesday, because he is one day before The person Duct taped and they are one day before Scotch tape. Scotch tape has to be either Thurs or frid. and Mateo has to be tuesday or Wednesday. Mateo cannot be Monday as that would mean Scotch tape would have to be Wednesday and clue 88. Of the person who arrived on Wednesday and the person who bought scotch tape, one brewed the Yirgacheffe coffee and the other is Elliott.
Therein lies my problem

It's either a very hard puzzle or it's wrong.

Stan

zenobia43
06-17-2012, 12:08 AM
It is a very difficult puzzle in my opinion.

Part of your solution is correct, but there is a flaw in your logic that has sent you down a dead end.

Repeating from your post:

Clue 3: Masking tape is Wednesday or Harrar. This also implies that Harrar cannot be Wednesday.

Clue 5: Masking tape is Tuesday or Sidamo. This also implies that Sidamo cannot be Tuesday.

So you are correct when you state

"So Masking tape must either be Tuesday and Harrar or Wednesday and Sidamo."

However, your next statement is incorrect:

"Sidamo not Tuesday clue 5. so must be Wed. "

Clues 3 and 5 present two possible associations for masking tape. Just because masking tape is one of those two associations, it doesn't make the other association true.

Those two associations of weekday and coffee in clues 3 and 5 are conditional on masking tape. I.e. IF masking tape is Tuesday, then Tuesday is associated with Harrar. IF masking tape is Wednesday, then Wednesday is associated with Sidamo.

In this case masking tape is not associated with Wednesday, so we can't say if Wednesday is associated with Sidamo or not.

The following table shows the count of new Xs (not dups) placed on successive passes through the entire list of clues as I solved the puzzle.

Pass 1 Pass 2 Pass 3 Pass 4
Clue 1 7 0 2 1
Clue 2 2 5 0 0
Clue 3 1 5 0 0
Clue 4 3 0 0 0
Clue 5 1 4 2 1
Clue 6 4 0 0 0
Clue 7 1 0 0 0
Clue 8 2 6 3 1**

** When I placed that X on pass 4, I knew where Mateo belonged, and clues 6 and 2 immediately gave me 2 more positives.

You can see on the fourth pass, the newcomer Xs were starting to get scarce, but I still got three more.

I usually don't make this many passes, but for this exercise, I didn't engage in any short cuts or combined passes. I just did a brute force (inefficient) top to bottom march through the logic. I was really curious to see how many passes it took on this difficult puzzle to finally get a positive.

I spent more than 6 hours on this one the first time I saw it. I had diagrams and flowcharts, truth tables, and guess outcomes all over the place, and lots of wadded up paper in the basket.

Keep at it. :) If you can solve this one, the others are going to look easy.

stanstar
06-17-2012, 03:19 AM
Hi my friend, I am pleased to hear that you too spent more than> 6 hrs on it your first time too! My brain is just about frazzled! I have a hard job keeping up with you Sir/Madam. Going through your chart I got lost when your 2nd pass got to clue 3 with 5 x's I didn't get any.I am up to your 5th clue with 4 x's I get zero. I am really tired it's late here. I will get back to you tomorrow. I really appreciate the help.

Stan

stanstar
06-17-2012, 04:09 AM
Hi Zenobia43, before you help me more can you show me where you get the 5 x's on your second pass on the second clue please? I only got 2. What am I missing? A lot most likely. BTW I would like to offer you the same sort of help in payment. I am an Astrologer and Horary Astrology is my speciality. Google it. I can answer any question you have. My email addy is stanley.sutherland@blueyonder.co.uk
I live in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Stan

zenobia43
06-17-2012, 01:37 PM
On the second pass, at first, it looks like clue 2 will only provide 2 additonal Xs.

Mateo cannot be Monday, and duct tape cannot be Tuesday.

However, when these two Xs are placed, then duct tape can only be Wednesday or Thursday, and scotch tape can only be Thursday or Friday.

Well then, one of those two tapes has to be Thursday, right? Clue 2 says duct and scotch tape must be one day apart, so that eliminates the possibility that duct tape is Wednesday when scotch tape is Friday. One of those two tapes must be Thursday to satisfy clue 2.

That will make it impossible for the other three tapes to associate with Thursday. That is how you get 5 new Xs instead of just 2 on the second pass.

On the second pass, clue 3 will provide 6 more Xs. In my table, I only show 5, so maybe that was a typo - or more likely, maybe I just missed one.

On the first pass, clue 3 gave us Harrar cannot be Wednesday and Zoey cannot be masking tape.

In the coffee/weekday category block, look at the intersection of Harrar and Wednesday. The Harrar column and Wednesday row make a cross. Notice that an X showed up in that cross after we placed the X from clue 3 at the intersection. Clue 4 gave us Wednesday cannot be Columbian.

Clue 3 tells us that the only way Zoey and masking tape can be Columbian is if Columbian is Wednesday. This new X from clue 4 eliminated that possibility, so on pass 2, clue 3 causes us to add two new Xs: Columbian cannot be Zoey and Columbian cannot be masking tape.

Now look at the cross formed by the Zoey column and masking tape row.

There are two Xs from clue 1 in that cross (not counting the intersection), and we can use those two Xs to add 4 more Xs to the grid.

Clue 3 tells us that the only way Erika or Lukas can be Wednesday or Harrar is if they are masking tape. The two Xs from clue 2 in the masking tape row eliminates that possibility, so we can add 4 new Xs. Erika cannot be Wednesday or Harrar, and Lukas cannot be Wednesday or Harrar.

So either I screwed something up or we just got 6 more Xs.

Continuing to clue 5 on the second pass, we look at the crosses formed by Tuesday and Sidamo, and Erika and masking tape. Nothing happened in the Tuesday/Sidamo cross, but we have two Xs from clue 1 in the Erika/masking tape cross that haven't been processed yet.

Those two Xs in the Erika/masking tape cross will give us another 4 Xs.

Two of the Xs will be in the Tuesday row (Lukas and Zoey), and the other two will be in the Sidamo row (Lukas and Zoey).

You can probably see by now that the Xs from clue 1 (Zoey/masking tape cross and Erika/masking tape cross) could have be processed as we got to clues 3 and 5 on the first pass. After you do these puzzles a while, you instinctively focus on the clues that mention the same columns and rows.

stanstar
06-17-2012, 07:29 PM
zenobia43 I understood what you explained up to here.


Continuing to clue 5 on the second pass, we look at the crosses formed by Tuesday and Sidamo, and Erika and masking tape. Nothing happened in the Tuesday/Sidamo cross, but we have two Xs from clue 1 in the Erika/masking tape cross that haven't been processed yet.

Those two Xs in the Erika/masking tape cross will give us another 4 Xs.

Two of the Xs will be in the Tuesday row (Lukas and Zoey), and the other two will be in the Sidamo row (Lukas and Zoey).

You can probably see by now that the Xs from clue 1 (Zoey/masking tape cross and Erika/masking tape cross) could have be processed as we got to clues 3 and 5 on the first pass. After you do these puzzles a while, you instinctively focus on the clues that mention the same columns and rows.

Can you explain how please?

Stan

zenobia43
06-18-2012, 03:00 AM
On the first pass, clue 5 only gave us one X: Sidamo cannot be Tuesday.

We could have gotten Erika cannot be masking tape from clue 5 as well, but that X was already obtained from clue 1.

If we had wanted to be more efficient on the first pass, we would have noted that when we checked the intersection of Erika and masking tape, clue 1 already had provided 3 Xs in the cross formed by the Erika column and the masking tape row in the tape/first name category block.

Clue 5 tells us that the only way Lukas or Zoey can be Sidamo or Tuesday is if they are masking tape.

But looking in that cross, we see that clue 1 has already made it impossible for Lukas or Zoey to be masking tape, so that means that neither Tuesday nor Sidamo can be Lukas or Zoey.

Therefore, on the second pass, clue 5 will give us 4 more Xs, or if we're efficient about it, clue 5 will give us 5 Xs on the first pass.

I threw in this refinement partially to answer your question about how to know what to focus on.

If you're not comfortable with this yet, don't fret. Just do the slow motion, brute force passes through the clues. Eventually you will have a pass that doesn't yield any more Xs, and you will know that either 1. The puzzle is almost solved, or 2. You misplaced an X or missed one, and most likely, you will have to start over or ask for help.

By the way, a bit off topic, but I usually know I have to start over when I see a pattern of rectangles in the solution grid that are still missing Xs. If I see those rectangles, and I cannot extract any more logic out of the clues, then I probably placed an X in the wrong place. Sometimes the ordering clues will provide the solution, but a lot of the time, I just was off one cell (like when first names are almost identical) when I placed an X.

And finally, a small suggestion - if we move on to a different puzzle after this one, personally, I would start another thread. This one got ridiculously long a long time ago ;);)

stanstar
06-18-2012, 06:52 PM
Thank you very much Zenobia43 I managed after that.

Stan